Getting kicked below the hogu

[Rumy73]

Some of my recent sparring experience has included several kicks below the hogu. Some kicks have landed on my hips and others right on the groin (ouch to both). I've politely asked the offending parties to exercise better control, perhaps even slowing down to control their power and accuracy, but this hasn't worked. Any advice? I suppose this is one of those downsides to sparring.

 

[ATC]

Until better techniques are developed many lower level belts will do this. Even higher level belts with bad technique will do this as well. More time need to be spent on developing the techniques and less time on sparring.

To many get caught up in trying to spar too much and not enough time on the developing of techniques. The will get better and kicking the proper area but it will take longer and many partners will have to endure the pain.

Just because you ask them to kick the target does not mean they can kick the target. It just takes time and practice.

More hogu drills I would say, and less sparring. Also more focus paddle drills as well. Hold the paddles at face height or top chest height at minimum. This is why it is a good idea to always practice kicking high. You need to develop the muscles to bring the leg up. Then kicking mid level or lower (on target) is easier.

More time on technique and less time on sparring for now, is all I can say.

 

[Manny]

Some of my recent sparring experience has included several kicks below the hogu. Some kicks have landed on my hips and others right on the groin (ouch to both). I've politely asked the offending parties to exercise better control, perhaps even slowing down to control their power and accuracy, but this hasn't worked. Any advice? I suppose this is one of those downsides to sparring.

If a fellow student kick me low (groin area) I will asking him to raise his foot... once.. or maybe twice.. but if this fellow keeps kicking me low I will certainly kick him the same way so he put atention, this is a comon thing in my dojang. Offcurse I will tell him UPS!! Sorry!! and hen maybe a second low kick will be not need it.

manny

 

[puunui]

More hogu drills I would say, and less sparring. Also more focus paddle drills as well. Hold the paddles at face height or top chest height at minimum. This is why it is a good idea to always practice kicking high.

I agree more hogu drills and less sparring. I don't know if I agree with always kicking high though. I prefer kicking paddles for roundhouse kick at stomach level at first and then going higher. Beginners generally do kick low even on the paddle; your thumb can get beat up. For white belts, I hold the paddle face side down, near my pinky finger, because they kick low. Otherwise you always have to watch for the low kick and make the adjustment. Holding the paddles face side down tends to solve that issue and if they miss because they are too low, then they have incentive to kick higher as well.

 

[puunui]

If a fellow student kick me low (groin area) I will asking him to raise his foot... once.. or maybe twice.. but if this fellow keeps kicking me low I will certainly kick him the same way so he put atention,

I don't know if that is a good idea, intentionally kicking someone low because they do it to you....

 

[puunui]

Some of my recent sparring experience has included several kicks below the hogu. Some kicks have landed on my hips and others right on the groin (ouch to both).

Hopefully you are wearing a cup during sparring.

 

[Carol]

Have you brought this up with your instructor? If multiple students are doing this, it sounds like the issue is more systemic. If that's the case, your instructors would need to know if something they are doing isn't working right so they can understand how to fix what is broken.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Look at these low kicks as a dose of reality. Rather than asking people to stop, position yourself against them. If you are feeling really brave, lose the cup. I know there are rules against these kicks, but I suggest you are better off expecting it to happen, rather than getting mad when it does.:mst:
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

I don't know if that is a good idea, intentionally kicking someone low because they do it to you....

It can be a wake up. LOL

 

[ATC]

I agree more hogu drills and less sparring. I don't know if I agree with always kicking high though. I prefer kicking paddles for roundhouse kick at stomach level at first and then going higher. Beginners generally do kick low even on the paddle; your thumb can get beat up. For white belts, I hold the paddle face side down, near my pinky finger, because they kick low. Otherwise you always have to watch for the low kick and make the adjustment. Holding the paddles face side down tends to solve that issue and if they miss because they are too low, then they have incentive to kick higher as well.

I fix getting kicked on the fingers by having anyone that kicks my hand do froggies (full squat jumps). For everytime my hand gets kicked they do 10. Kick my hand 3 times you do 30. It works really well, makes them focus, plus it builds the leg muscles and edurance at the same time.

 

[ryuu55]

If a fellow student kick me low (groin area) I will asking him to raise his foot... once.. or maybe twice.. but if this fellow keeps kicking me low I will certainly kick him the same way so he put atention, this is a comon thing in my dojang. Offcurse I will tell him UPS!! Sorry!! and hen maybe a second low kick will be not need it.

manny

That's kinda how we do it. You get warned a couple of times, after that you get what you give. One time usually puts an end to this.

 

[ryuu55]

Hopefully you are wearing a cup during sparring.

One would hope. When I started my instructor used to have "cup checks" during warm-ups. A shinai to the groin a time or two will have you in a cup every time. He hasn't done this in years, but to this day I will not step out onto the dojang floor without one.

 

[Rumy73]

I never said I was getting mad at another student. I am just saying those low kicks hurt - alot after awhile. I understand it comes with the territory and yes, I am wearing a cup. After getting blasted a few times, I can't see how one would forgo it.

I am wondering if some of the low kicking is related to fast-style roundhouse kicks? If you understand what mean is that where the kick comes up 45 instead of fully up and over at 90 degrees. I realize this technique is common in TKD, because it is faster. Thoughts?

 

[Rumy73]

Dear ATC,

I really appreciate this advice. I would like to follow up with you on it, please. Since I am not an instructor, however, I am a senior student to the parties involved, I am not sure whether to raise this to my Sabum Nim. Or just to continue to address it to the persons involved.

Until better techniques are developed many lower level belts will do this. Even higher level belts with bad technique will do this as well. More time need to be spent on developing the techniques and less time on sparring.

To many get caught up in trying to spar too much and not enough time on the developing of techniques. The will get better and kicking the proper area but it will take longer and many partners will have to endure the pain.

Just because you ask them to kick the target does not mean they can kick the target. It just takes time and practice.

More hogu drills I would say, and less sparring. Also more focus paddle drills as well. Hold the paddles at face height or top chest height at minimum. This is why it is a good idea to always practice kicking high. You need to develop the muscles to bring the leg up. Then kicking mid level or lower (on target) is easier.

More time on technique and less time on sparring for now, is all I can say.

 

[ETinCYQX]

I'd never, ever kick to the groin just to teach someone a lesson. I have been known to catch the soft part of the stomach with a front kick just under the hogu though. Done it maybe twice.

 

[puunui]

I fix getting kicked on the fingers by having anyone that kicks my hand do froggies (full squat jumps). For everytime my hand gets kicked they do 10. Kick my hand 3 times you do 30. It works really well, makes them focus, plus it builds the leg muscles and edurance at the same time.

Try holding the paddles face down for one beginner white belt class. It virtually eliminates getting kicked in the hand, and the need to dish out punishment, which I generally don't really like to do in class if I can avoid it. Also easier holding for younger kids and less stress on the hands. Master Atef Himaya showed me that way. I thought it was really strange in the beginning, but then not getting kicked in the thumb made it worth it.

 

[ATC]

Try holding the paddles face down for one beginner white belt class. It virtually eliminates getting kicked in the hand, and the need to dish out punishment, which I generally don't really like to do in class if I can avoid it. Also easier holding for younger kids and less stress on the hands. Master Atef Himaya showed me that way. I thought it was really strange in the beginning, but then not getting kicked in the thumb made it worth it.

I do that also but to teach the focus the foggies work wonders. Getting kicked in the hand when doing paddle training is more about focus. Plus it makes if fun for them the way I do it, not punishment.

I only hold the paddle with the curved side down when holding for the bigger kickers, 14 and up. Their kicks tend to hurt a little more. They still can kick the hand but it helps.

 

[ATC]

...I am wondering if some of the low kicking is related to fast-style roundhouse kicks? If you understand what mean is that where the kick comes up 45 instead of fully up and over at 90 degrees. I realize this technique is common in TKD, because it is faster. Thoughts?

No the 45 degree kick should not have anything to do with this if they are bending at the knee and not doing what we call "drag kicking". Drag kicking is where the knee is not bent or partially bent and your kick if from the hip only with no knee bend. 45 or 90 degrees on the angle of the kick matter not, you still need to bend the knee fully. Drag kicking is poor technique and will lead to hips, groins, and even knees being kicked. The number one reinforcement reminder that I give all the time is to bend the knee. This is on all kicks. Drag kicking also will lead to the kick extending up past the impact area if done on a 45 angle kicking and over kicking with loss of control on the recoil on 90 angle kicking. So make sure they are bending the knee and not drag kicking.

Also rushing a kicking and not committing to a kick fully, will cause poor technique also. This is where someone kicks but is afraid of being kicked and will cut the kick short to move or try to kick at the wrong distance (too close) because they see an opening but don't have the footwork to get in place to kick properly. They just try to kick to hit the open target but can't connect due to the distance. They end up kicking the hip or groin instead. It is all about technique.

Rules when kicking

1. Commit to your kick fully
2. Bend the knee (only proper kicks, regardless if you miss or not)
3. Put the kicking foot on the floor as fast as possible after kicking (to many leave the foot in the air for some reason. This makes you stationary and you will get kicked or hit while standing with one foot in the air.
4. Don't worry about being hit but rather make sure your kick hits. If you get hit in the process just make sure your kick is the harder kick.

That is basically it.

 

[puunui]

No the 45 degree kick should not have anything to do with this if they are bending at the knee and not doing what we call "drag kicking". Drag kicking is where the knee is not bent or partially bent and your kick if from the hip only with no knee bend. 45 or 90 degrees on the angle of the kick matter not, you still need to bend the knee fully. Drag kicking is poor technique and will lead to hips, groins, and even knees being kicked. The number one reinforcement reminder that I give all the time is to bend the knee. This is on all kicks. Drag kicking also will lead to the kick extending up past the impact area if done on a 45 angle kicking and over kicking with loss of control on the recoil on 90 angle kicking. So make sure they are bending the knee and not drag kicking.

Sometimes "drag kicking" is useful. Ap Bal for example. But how do you feel about the retraction part of the kick, especially for roundhouse? Do you feel that a full snap back is important?

 

[puunui]

Put the kicking foot on the floor as fast as possible after kicking (to many leave the foot in the air for some reason. This makes you stationary and you will get kicked or hit while standing with one foot in the air.

I think the foot in the air thing is a result of teaching students to snap their kick back upon the retraction as one of the most important parts of the kick. I'm more into letting the retraction or recoil be natural, and instead focus on, as you say, putting the kicking foot on the floor as quickly as possible.