Getting back after broken ankle

[jobo]

Actual evidence other than having had ultrasound and a husband who has also? Or off the NICE website which is the recommendation body for the NHS and investigates what works and what doesn't then reports with the evidence of whichever? for example here...
"The case for adopting the EXOGEN ultrasound bone healing system to treat long bone fractures with non-union (failure to heal after 9 months) is supported by the clinical evidence, which shows high rates of fracture healing."

EXOGEN ultrasound bone healing system for long bone fractures with non-union or delayed healing | Guidance and guidelines | NICE

I thought we were talking about muscle injuries or have you moved the goal posts

 

[jobo]

Incorrect.
Osteopathy - Safety and regulation - NHS Choices

Osteopathy is one of only two complementary and alternative medicines (CAMs) that are regulated under UK law. The other is chiropractic.

Regulation works in much the same way as regulation for medical doctors.

Regulation
By law, osteopaths must be registered with the General Osteopathic Council (GOsC).

The GOsC only accepts registration from practitioners who have a qualification in osteopathy that's recognised by the GOsC and who comply with their standards of practice.

Osteopaths are required to renew their registration each year. As part of this process, the GOsC checks to ensure they have the correct insurance, are meeting professional development requirements and remain in good health.

If you use an osteopath and they don't adhere to this standard of practice, you can complain to the GOsC. It has a duty to investigate the complaint.

by regulated I meant regulated by the general medical council , which regulates all other medical practicioners. Not some tin pot organisations.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

it depends how long the waiting list is and the quality of the treatment given. An NHS PT hit me with the ultrasound, then acupuncture, when those didnt work told me id never walk properly again let alone play football do karate. He said that's the best i was going to be and discharged me. But here i am 10 years older doing both and my bad back is a distant memory .

you seem remarkably trusting, did you read the link, have you seen any actual evidence that ultrasound has science behind it?

In a quick survey of journal articles related to therapeutic ultrasound since 2007, I found some that showed no effect and others that showed positive effects. As you might expect, the treatment appears to be beneficial to some types of issues, and not to others. For instance, there appears to be little evidence of efficacy for rotator cuff injuries or osteoarthritis in knees, but significant evidence it can be as effective as exercise in Achilles tendon issues.

There is some over-application mentioned in the articles, and perhaps a lack of understanding of the actual effects. Some of the more damning articles pointed out how un-targeted much of the use was. In fact, there is some evidence that healthy tissue can be corrupted by certain types of ultrasound, though that appeared to be referring to types used in cancer treatments, rather than PT.

 

[JR 137]

its not bad advice, but it maybe expensive advice, a therapist will twirl you ankle about and then give you a list of mobility and strengh exercises, you can do that your self

yes but the exercises are in the public domain, you don't have to pay a Pt to tell you to waggle it about to increase blood flow and build up the strength in the surrounding tissue

This is the equivalent of learning martial arts from YouTube rather than an actual in-person teacher.

Which exercises are appropriate? When are they appropriate? How often is appropriate? What level of resistance? When do you increase the resistance? How much do you increase it? When is it appropriate to decrease it? What modifications must be made for the individual? At which phase? How does the individual know they're doing the exercises correctly? Does the individual know what to look for? Does the individual know about progression of exercises? Progression of returning to activity?

Any idiot can watch some videos and follow along. An expert knows the "what ifs."

I'm an athletic trainer. I've been doing the job for 18 years now. I like to think I'm very good at making the decisions (and more) listed above. Guess what? I suck at assessing my own injuries. I suck at giving myself a proper return to activity plan. When I get injured, I see an orthopedist friend of mine that I worked with. If it's complex, I see a PT friend of mine that I worked with. Why? They're far more objective that I could ever be about my injuries.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

by regulated I meant regulated by the general medical council , which regulates all other medical practicioners. Not some tin pot organisations.

Do you have a specific issue with the regulating body?

 

[Tez3]

I thought we were talking about muscle injuries or have you moved the goal posts

by regulated I meant regulated by the general medical council , which regulates all other medical practicioners. Not some tin pot organisations.

You did notice that the title of the thread is 'broken ankle'?

From the General Medical councils website. GMC | UK Health and Social Care Regulators

"UK Health and Social Care Regulators
There are 12 organisations in the UK known as health and social care regulators. Each organisation oversees one or more of the health and social care professions by regulating individual professionals across the UK.

These organisations, also known as regulators, were set up to protect the public so that whenever you see a health or social care professional, whether private or in the NHS, you can be sure they meet the standards set by the relevant regulator."

In the list of these regulators
General Osteopathic Council (GOsC)
Osteopaths
Phone: 020 7357 6655 Website: www.osteopathy.org.uk

 

[jobo]

Do you have a specific issue with the regulating body?

only in its not a regulating body in the correct use of the word, there is a legal requirement to register with them, there is not requirement at all for them to regulate the standard of treatment. Osteopath's are forbidden by law to undertake medical treatment, ergo it isn't classed a medocal

 

[jobo]

You did notice that the title of the thread is 'broken ankle'?

From the General Medical councils website. GMC | UK Health and Social Care Regulators

"UK Health and Social Care Regulators
There are 12 organisations in the UK known as health and social care regulators. Each organisation oversees one or more of the health and social care professions by regulating individual professionals across the UK.

These organisations, also known as regulators, were set up to protect the public so that whenever you see a health or social care professional, whether private or in the NHS, you can be sure they meet the standards set by the relevant regulator."

In the list of these regulators
General Osteopathic Council (GOsC)
Osteopaths
Phone: 020 7357 6655 Website: www.osteopathy.org.uk

I did, but its a broken ankle that has healed, so not applicable

 

[jobo]

This is the equivalent of learning martial arts from YouTube rather than an actual in-person teacher.

Which exercises are appropriate? When are they appropriate? How often is appropriate? What level of resistance? When do you increase the resistance? How much do you increase it? When is it appropriate to decrease it? What modifications must be made for the individual? At which phase? How does the individual know they're doing the exercises correctly? Does the individual know what to look for? Does the individual know about progression of exercises? Progression of returning to activity?

Any idiot can watch some videos and follow along. An expert knows the "what ifs."

I'm an athletic trainer. I've been doing the job for 18 years now. I like to think I'm very good at making the decisions (and more) listed above. Guess what? I suck at assessing my own injuries. I suck at giving myself a proper return to activity plan. When I get injured, I see an orthopedist friend of mine that I worked with. If it's complex, I see a PT friend of mine that I worked with. Why? They're far more objective that I could ever be about my injuries.

no, its a lot more like learning to fix a car out of a book, something that is well inside the reach of a lot of people. He'll they even have books specially for it

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You did notice that the title of the thread is 'broken ankle'?

And, though I didn't mention it, bone healing was one of the areas I saw represented often in the studies I quickly surveyed this morning. There seems to have been more study on that application (bone healing) than others.

 

[Tez3]

only in its not a regulating body in the correct use of the word, there is a legal requirement to register with them, there is not requirement at all for them to regulate the standard of treatment. Osteopath's are forbidden by law to undertake medical treatment, ergo it isn't classed a medocal

Ok so the GMC recognises them, the NHS does but you don't, we get it. Did you know that doctors aren't allowed to treat animals but veterinary surgeons are allowed to treat humans? You had a bad experience with one, you are alright now, get over it.

 

[jobo]

You did notice that the title of the thread is 'broken ankle'?

From the General Medical councils website. GMC | UK Health and Social Care Regulators

"UK Health and Social Care Regulators
There are 12 organisations in the UK known as health and social care regulators. Each organisation oversees one or more of the health and social care professions by regulating individual professionals across the UK.

These organisations, also known as regulators, were set up to protect the public so that whenever you see a health or social care professional, whether private or in the NHS, you can be sure they meet the standards set by the relevant regulator."

In the list of these regulators
General Osteopathic Council (GOsC)
Osteopaths
Phone: 020 7357 6655 Website: www.osteopathy.org.uk

how do they regulate , I mean specifically how do they check the treatment is correct

 

[Gerry Seymour]

no, its a lot more like learning to fix a car out of a book, something that is well inside the reach of a lot of people. He'll they even have books specially for it

Except that every car isn't different (very few variations within a single model), and you're not really "repairing" parts, you are replacing them, so there's not much need for a dozen different approaches to a tune-up. Not a very near analogy.

 

[Tez3]

I did, but its a broken ankle that has healed, so not applicable

So picky.

 

[jobo]

Ok so the GMC recognises them, the NHS does but you don't, we get it. Did you know that doctors aren't allowed to treat animals but veterinary surgeons are allowed to treat humans? You had a bad experience with one, you are alright now, get over it.

any one can treat animals, you just cant charge for it. He'll I treated my dog just the other day, he had a poorly paw

 

[jobo]

Except that every car isn't different (very few variations within a single model), and you're not really "repairing" parts, you are replacing them, so there's not much need for a dozen different approaches to a tune-up. Not a very near analogy.

I think you'll find most humans are pretty much the same, . Head, check, feet check, toes check, yes much the same

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think you'll find most humans are pretty much the same, . Head, check, feet check, toes check, yes much the same

Actually, not so much as you seem to think. You're speaking of gross structure, and that's actually quite similar across the population. Not so much at the detailed level. People respond differently to medicines. People have differences in how they injure themselves, what gets tighter/looser/less pliable when range of motion is restricted, and what exercises work on them for recovering.

EDIT: By the way, by your words above, vehicles are much the same: motor, brakes, wheels, seats, check. But you can't tune a semi truck using a motorcycle manual. You probably can't tune a Volvo using a Saab manual, either. Heck, you probably can't tune a 1995 Honda using a 2015 Honda manual.

 

[jobo]

Actually, not so much as you seem to think. You're speaking of gross structure, and that's actually quite similar across the population. Not so much at the detailed level. People respond differently to medicines. People have differences in how they injure themselves, what gets tighter/looser/less pliable when range of motion is restricted, and what exercises work on them for recovering.

EDIT: By the way, by your words above, vehicles are much the same: motor, brakes, wheels, seats, check. But you can't tune a semi truck using a motorcycle manual. You probably can't tune a Volvo using a Saab manual, either. Heck, you probably can't tune a 1995 Honda using a 2015 Honda manual.

there are far more differences in autos than people. One owners manual will fit all people, not so all cars bikes and trucks.

we are talking about repairing muscles, we all have the same muscles in much the same place and they all respond much the same to treatment. Perhaps you could explain how an injured torn ham,string is completely different from one individual to another.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

there are far more differences in autos than people. One owners manual will fit all people, not so all cars bikes and trucks.

we are talking about repairing muscles, we all have the same muscles in much the same place and they all respond much the same to treatment. Perhaps you could explain how an injured torn ham,string is completely different from one individual to another.

So many wrongs. I'm done here.

 

[JR 137]

So many wrongs. I'm done here.

Took you long enough.