george pesare

[KGS BBS]

Thank you, guys, it's good to be back. I'll be checking in here and there for now but got a lot of things to do in the next two months. Take care & be safe, Joe

 

[KGS BBS]

http://www.thebelt.com/History/History_II/history_ii.htm

Check this website out, it backs up my post of how the training was very intense in the 60's to say the least and how martial arts icon Sifu James Ibrao earned his black belt from Mr. Parker in 9 months.

 

[Gentle Fist]

Welcome back Professor Joe!

It has been a fun and busy couple of months for you I see...

You had some great insights on bullshido.... it is hard to post anything without getting slammed over there!

 

[desousae]

Would like to let anyone who was interested in the GGM Pesare video that it is worth the purchase if you can get ahold. A great friend of mine let me view his copy and I was a good watch. The best part is the GM Carpenter fight at the end. It shows that the US already had Vale Tudo style fights way before the UFC, King of the Cage and all of those.

 

[RevIV]

Would like to let anyone who was interested in the GGM Pesare video that it is worth the purchase if you can get ahold. A great friend of mine let me view his copy and I was a good watch. The best part is the GM Carpenter fight at the end. It shows that the US already had Vale Tudo style fights way before the UFC, King of the Cage and all of those.

Whats going on D.? Good to see you reading into some of the history.
Jesse

 

[Joe Shuras]

Just ran across this today, thought it was interesting...........

09-09-2003, 03:39 PM
slapandwrap

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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: new york
Posts: 315


1960 ny/nj blackbelts?
gents, i cannot speak about the rest of the martial arts world but many of the blackbelts in my area when i was a kid could rip most people of today a new ***----------they were either ex-military , police officers and many were both , they worked the stuff on the street on a daily basis and their workouts often ended in blood . -----------these guys could really fight so a statement like black belts of the 1960's routinely got their asses kick struck a nerve---------here are some black belts around here [ 60's] nagle, urban, miner, alexander, powers, vanlenten, malachi lee, johnny kuhl, ruemann, cheatem, kaloudis, frank ryan, kim, yonezuka, shimamoto, hara, nakamura, depasquale, delgado, roldan, defelice---------------these guys were rough and tumble guys-------esp. ny/nj guys, east coast fighters were known for street fighting capability-------in fact most 1960 karateka from here were the last of the hardmen-------read real life situations of men like kuhl, siringano, ryan etc-------in fact i know very few men today that could take on roger carpenter, george pesare, JIM HARRISON ------these were bad dudes------------ralph

 

[marlon]

so what about intense training these days. how do you see it?
marlon

 

[marlon]

actually i think i will start a thread for this one
marlon

 

[Joe Shuras]

so what about intense training these days. how do you see it?
marlon

It's a prerequisite to being a good, solid fighter, be it in the ring or on the street. - Joe

 

[Jdokan]

so what about intense training these days. how do you see it?
marlon

I guess you would have to define intense...Do you mean sweat dripping, bloody knuckles and faces, broken bone type workouts??? I think those are a thing of the past....If you mean intense by hard, sweaty workouts (definitely bone bruises though) where you analzye one or two techniques. Defending against a variety of punches..using the same defensive technique...ie #1 combo against r/punch off the l/foot forward or r/foot forward, If it was club attack, knife attack....going over and over the same technique again and again...
I think you'll find intense workouts going on in the dojo or somebody's basement or garage....but I also think you'll find it happening between a smaller segment of MA's...There has to be a very high level of trust between practitioners....Ego's have to be left at the door before entering...

 

[Danjo]

I guess you would have to define intense...Do you mean sweat dripping, bloody knuckles and faces, broken bone type workouts??? I think those are a thing of the past....If you mean intense by hard, sweaty workouts (definitely bone bruises though) where you analzye one or two techniques. Defending against a variety of punches..using the same defensive technique...ie #1 combo against r/punch off the l/foot forward or r/foot forward, If it was club attack, knife attack....going over and over the same technique again and again...
I think you'll find intense workouts going on in the dojo or somebody's basement or garage....but I also think you'll find it happening between a smaller segment of MA's...There has to be a very high level of trust between practitioners....Ego's have to be left at the door before entering...

I think it's mostly a mind set. The only reason that people wanted to take Karate etc. back then was to learn how to fight. That meant that certain kinds of people would comprise the bulk of the martial arts students. It wasn't the "Soccer Moms" and their kids for the most part. Even those that wanted to "Learn how to defend themselves" didn't last unless they liked to fight fight fight. Same kind of people train in boxing etc.

Now, the martial arts are largely regarded as something that the kids do in the off season or as a sport itself. The adults often use it to keep in shape etc.

We laugh at the old ads that advertised "Fear No Man!" etc., but that appealed to a certain type of person, i.e., fighters, and the marketing now is all about "Build character. Keep in shape" etc.

 

[marlon]

good observation
marlon

 

[Matt]

I think it's mostly a mind set. The only reason that people wanted to take Karate etc. back then was to learn how to fight. That meant that certain kinds of people would comprise the bulk of the martial arts students. It wasn't the "Soccer Moms" and their kids for the most part. Even those that wanted to "Learn how to defend themselves" didn't last unless they liked to fight fight fight. Same kind of people train in boxing etc.

Now, the martial arts are largely regarded as something that the kids do in the off season or as a sport itself. The adults often use it to keep in shape etc.

We laugh at the old ads that advertised "Fear No Man!" etc., but that appealed to a certain type of person, i.e., fighters, and the marketing now is all about "Build character. Keep in shape" etc.

I think Dan has a good point here. If you think about the classes in the early days, the 'attendance' list reads like a who's who of the martial arts. Seeing as we know a lot more about exercise, physiology, pedagogy and tactics used by other arts, we should be producing whole crops of students that surpass the revered elders. Why not?

Because the reason the class list read like a who's who back then, was the non-hardcore students were removed via attrition. The only folks who stuck around were the ones who would have kicked your but no matter what they trained in. By trying to keep the average joes, soccer moms and kids, we've flooded the martial arts schools with hobbyists. Is this bad? Good? I think it's just a matter of opinion or philosophy. Are you trying to create peerless fighters or just do the most good for the largest number of people. I have some friends who teach at a school a couple of towns over, and I've recommended about a half dozen students to them over the last year. I teach at a different school, so why on earth would I send them to 'the competition'? Because they aren't the competition. They cater to the 18-23 UFC hopeful demographic. They are a small school in someone's basement. They will never be a big school. They have no website, and I'm not sure they even have a sign. They have business cards now and then. And if you survive a month there, you are allowed to add your name to the roster. Only a small percentage of folks do. The last guy I referred there (about 6 months ago) has lost 50 lbs. He has a cauliflower ear now. He's as happy as a clam. How many soccer moms or kids do you think they have? How many of your students would last a 2 minute round MMA style with any of their '1-year' veterans. How many of your blackbelts? You make your choices philosophically and with how you want to focus your life and time.

I'm not saying that either one is bad or good. What I am saying is - run your school the way you believe is right. You will attract that type of student. If you try to cater to everybody (from hardcore to soccer mom) in one program, you will alienate half of your students on a regular basis. If you teach in a way that you don't personally believe, your students will figure it out.

Matt

 

[LawDog]

Around 25 - 30 years ago I met a Japanese Master. He spoke very broken English. He stated that in Japan there are two types of martial artists,
1) a martial artists,
2) a player of the arts.
In Japan many systems are considered a sport and others are considered a martial art.
There are many today, including myself, who view or modern martial arts in this fashion. If you find what your are looking for and are happy with it, good for you.

 

[Joe Shuras]

Here's something I had saved from the first "Best of the Best" tournament that our students attended. Our students have now competed every year since.

SENIOR GRANDMASTER S. GEORGE PESARE'S
BEST OF THE BEST FINAL RESULTS
10/5/2003
​

IN ATTENDANCE WERE THE FOLLOWING
GRANDMASTERS
ROGER C. CARPENTER
DONNA VINBURY
HERB PAQUETTE
ARMEN GARO
VINCENT PEZZI
JOE MAGGIO
MARC AYOTTE
GILMAN WHITING

BLACK BELTS
ROBERT5 NOHELTY
JESSE DWIRE
JOE SHURAS
KATHY SHURAS

"9" DISCIPLINES
BOXING-HIGH KICKING-GRAPPLING-KNIFE TO KNIFE-SHORT STICK-LONG SWORD-ARCHERY-PISTOL-POWER KNIFE THROWING..

MINI-JUNIORS
RANDY ALSABE OW
ALEX D'ALOSIO 2ND
BRITTANY FIRTH 3RD

JUNIORS
RYAN MARSLAND OW
TREVOR CASANELLI 2ND
MARCUS LEVERETT 3RD
JARED CHEVES 4TH

WOMEN
MILESSA MORRISSEY OW
MARY MORINO 2ND

ADULTS
J. MC CUE OW
M. MAJERNIC 2ND
H. CRUZ 3RD
D. LAVALLEE 4TH


THE ABOVE ARE THE BESTOF THE BEST, NO TAG FIGHTING, NO KATA FORM, BUT TO DO IT ALL.. THEY DID IT.. A CONGRATULATIONS TO THE FOLLOWING TEACHERS
JESSE DWIRE, JOE SHURAS AND KATHY SHURAS FOR BRINGING GOOD FIGHTERS FOR "THE BEST OF THE BEST"

THE REST OF YOU PEOPLE CAN LIVE IN A CLOSET

GM S. GEORGE PESARE




​

 

[student68]

As far as Gm. Pesare goes, back in the day, no doubt he was hard core


This kind of work-out is still around even in the strip mall dojo of today.
It is the teacher that makes the class what it is.

He may have one-hundred jr. students but when it comes to his adults he'll turn it upthe heat to high, Nobody walk out without dripping sweat, sore wrist, jamed toe, or bruised rib but, we all come back becuase we love it and knowing that we are the hardcore of this art.
We all have, as Sensei puts it, "big boy jobs" so we do try to take care of our own, BUT we work as hard as we can on each other without trying to kill one another.

 

[student68]

IM A 4th dan no a 8th dan ... no no a 9th dan "yeah thats the ticket"

 

[Joe Shuras]

student68: This kind of work-out is still around even in the strip mall dojo of today.
It is the teacher that makes the class what it is.[/quote]

Agreed, this is true - Joe

 

[FelixBG]

The dvd Early Kempo in New England
is no longer available any one knows where to get it?

 

[Dirty Dog]

The dvd Early Kempo in New England
is no longer available

Since the last post in this thread was in 2007, it's safe to bet that neither are the people you're responding to...