Functional TKD from a Jow Ga Perspective

[JowGaWolf]

Technique #1 Low Block

Here is the video of me using it in free sparring / real world application of this technique. I use it on both punches and kicks in this video. Off the top of my head I know 5 or 6 applications of this technique all of them are very practical.

I originally had 4 paragraphs explaining this simple technique just to see if my perspective of it for TKD was correct. But thought it would be better to play it safe and just show the video.

How often is this block used in TKD free sparring?

 

[JowGaWolf]

FYI.. This is not a realistic application of the low blow technique. However, it is a realistic concept of one of the applications for that type of block dealing with certain kicks. What makes it an unrealistic application is that the lady is in a bow stance when the kick is done. A possible problem that exists below is that the person blocking is at risk for having the elbow kick. One would think that the toes would be hurt from kicking the elbow, but if you put shoes on then it's easy to understand that shoes will win (Jow Ga kicks each other with shoes on so trust me on this one). In a free sparring application there will be a considerable amount of movement and not much time to pose in a bow stance. You can also see that the guy would be able to still connect with the kick. When this technique is done in horse stance, the center of the body is far from the kick due to the stance. So even if the person misses the block the kick won't land. The risk of getting kick in the elbow will always be there which is why using the correct angle matters. From what I've experienced the higher up a person is in the stance the greater the risk of having the elbow kicked. There's a nerve on the inside of the leg where she is striking. I won't say where it is, but she's missed it .

 

[Tez3]

This isn't a TKD block per se though, it's common in karate where it's Gedanbarai. It's done with a twisting movement to make the block more powerful and can be quickly changed to a knife hand becoming Shuto Gedanbarai. There's two ways of twisting the body into it, the same direction as the blocking hand and the other is to twist the body in the opposite direction, both give it more force.
Blocking as shown in your picture would surely only be done in a one and three step situation not sparring.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm pretty sure this technique is found pretty widely across most, if not all, forms of unarmed combat.
It's one of the very first things taught in our system.

 

[oftheherd1]

FYI.. This is not a realistic application of the low blow technique. However, it is a realistic concept of one of the applications for that type of block dealing with certain kicks. What makes it an unrealistic application is that the lady is in a bow stance when the kick is done. A possible problem that exists below is that the person blocking is at risk for having the elbow kick. One would think that the toes would be hurt from kicking the elbow, but if you put shoes on then it's easy to understand that shoes will win (Jow Ga kicks each other with shoes on so trust me on this one). In a free sparring application there will be a considerable amount of movement and not much time to pose in a bow stance. You can also see that the guy would be able to still connect with the kick. When this technique is done in horse stance, the center of the body is far from the kick due to the stance. So even if the person misses the block the kick won't land. The risk of getting kick in the elbow will always be there which is why using the correct angle matters. From what I've experienced the higher up a person is in the stance the greater the risk of having the elbow kicked. There's a nerve on the inside of the leg where she is striking. I won't say where it is, but she's missed it .

Just some comments from my perspective. And I am not saying your style is wrong. Every style, and school, can pick their own way to do things. If they make it work, that is all that matters.

First, when I studied TKD, the guy doing the kicking would not have been wearing a BB. Long before attaining a black belt, a student would have been taught not to unbalance themselves while doing a kick.

As to an elbow being kicked, there is always a danger of being injured when blocking a kick or punch. Since there is more power generally in a kick, there is more danger there. However, since I was taught to block by having the arm straight at the moment of contact, I would think a kick to the elbow would be unlikely, for me anyway.

I don't think her stance is wrong, but more in line with step sparing. As you allude to, it is not so likely to be done in free sparing. But it is possible if she is anticipating his moving his kicking leg to his rear, and she intends to step in and punch.

I don't know what pressure point you are referring to, but the one I am most familiar with, she looks close with her wrist. But I would think that dangerous. Why not the fist or a sudo hand? BTW, is she trying to grab his ankle? That would be to me an awkward start of a block or grab, but I am always willing to learn something new.

Again, just my observations from my TKD days and subsequent Hapkido training. Seeing the techniques in a moving shot, rather than in that still shot, might show something different and my comments might be different. And if you think I am off base, please tell me how and why. I have always had a lot of respect for the Chinese arts and think they have much to teach us.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This isn't a TKD block per se though, it's common in karate

I'm pretty sure this technique is found pretty widely across most, if not all, forms of unarmed combat.
It's one of the very first things taught in our system.

Correct.
It's found in multiple martial arts systems. I've been going through some of the TKD forms to see if I had any videos of me using the same or similar, or different applications of the same technique. I'm not a fan of TKD but that FTF post about TKD not being functional left a bad taste in my mouth, especially since some of the techniques in it are found in other systems.

However, since I was taught to block by having the arm straight at the moment of contact, I would think a kick to the elbow would be unlikely, for me anyway

From a kung fu long fist perspective a locked elbow causes all sorts of problems when we do our long fist punches. One of the common injuries that Jow Ga students have is hyper-extended elbows which comes from locking the elbow. If you go against a system that attacks joints (there's a lot of them) then you'll be at risk with that elbow is locked.
You can see in this video how the straight elbow is taken advantage of. Many of the things I see here are in Jow Ga and kung fu in general as well as some Japanese systems, but the application of it is different. If you know what kicks to use then kicking the elbow won't be uncommon. It's one of the many reasons why they tell people not to chicken wing and to keep the elbows pointed down.

But it is possible if she is anticipating his moving his kicking leg to his rear, and she intends to step in and punch.

It still won't be a bow stance as she is showing. It may be a step forward but it won't be a bow stance. You may get a bow stance when the punch is thrown. But that initial step will be a transitional one. But you did read the next step accurate. It would be possible to step in and punch provided that the impact of the block turns the leg or maybe strikes the nerve in the leg hard enough to cause a delay in his action. The step in and punch that you speak of is called a thrust punch in my school. I'm don't know the TKD name of it.

I don't know what pressure point you are referring to, but the one I am most familiar with, she looks close with her wrist. But I would think that dangerous. Why not the fist or a sudo hand?

I was taught to hit with the fist and not the wrist as you stated. I can use my wrist because it's conditioned, but I was taught to strike that nerve with the bottom of our fist like a hammer strike. Hitting it with the wrist is what happens when I'm off with the block.

BTW, is she trying to grab his ankle?

Yes. I'm assuming that she's holding his leg up for the photo-shoot.

Seeing the techniques in a moving shot, rather than in that still shot, might show something different and my comments might be different.

Your comments are accurate at least from my understanding of the technique.

As martial artist we all get the mechanics demo which shows use the mechanics of it, and we get the technique applications demo which shows how it works and what it does. The thing that we don't get is how to apply it in a real free sparring or real fight situation. I think the reason why is that there is no way the instructor can pick out a realistic body position that a student will be in during a fight that may or may not happen in the future. With free sparring and real fight applications, the student has to recognize the opportunities in which that technique can be applied. Some may be text book situations but most won't be. I think the majority of practitioners understanding stops at the application demo and they don't dig deeper into the technique (some by choice, others from laziness) and as a result they aren't able to apply the technique during free sparring.

 

[Tez3]

but that FTF post about TKD not being functional left a bad taste in my mouth, especially since some of the techniques in it are found in other systems.

The only TKD I have done was with a friend who was an instructor, it was different, obviously, from my karate but only in the way it did techniques and in what I would call kata but he, forms. It certainly wasn't the Olympic stuff and the sparring was fierce. They did tend to do high kicks more than we would but it was instructive to me and them for us to spar and try to deal with their high kicks, my lower ones ( I 'm old I can't kick high lol) plus I would go in close, sweep etc as well as doing takedowns ( my karate is Wado Ryu) From what I understood from my friend his way of TKD is far more common here than anything that isn't 'functional'

 

[RTKDCMB]

I was taught to hit with the fist and not the wrist as you stated. I can use my wrist because it's conditioned, but I was taught to strike that nerve with the bottom of our fist like a hammer strike. Hitting it with the wrist is what happens when I'm off with the block.

I was always taught to block with the forearm, rather than with the fist as there is a much greater margin for error.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was always taught to block with the forearm, rather than with the fist as there is a much greater margin for error.

What type of attack would you use the forearm for? I'm not saying it's wrong, just trying to get context of the block from your perspective. I know the technique is very simple but we could probably easily get 20 or more different applications for this same technique.

 

[RTKDCMB]

What type of attack would you use the forearm for?

To block (deflect, parry, receive, or whatever we want to call it) any kind of striking attack.

 

[RTKDCMB]

How often is this block used in TKD free sparring?

When blocking is used, very.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To block (deflect, parry, receive, or whatever we want to call it) any kind of striking attack.

ok. when I use the technique on the punches I use my forearm as well. I can see the forearm being used if the attacker is taller and say he or she did a front heel kick to the upper stomach. I'm thinking that the picture of the 2 people at top with the lady blocking, would be such a situation. Because of the man's height I can see him kicking higher than where his leg is in the photo. If she were to do the same front heel kick to him her kick would most likely land toward the lower stomach making his block land closer to the hand. Would that be an accurate scenario or would the taller guy still try to block her front heel kick with his forearm?

 

[JowGaWolf]

When blocking is used, very.

Awesome. It looks like that's one technique down. Low Block = Very dependable and versatile technique that can actually be applied in a real fight.

 

[WaterGal]

Your video is pretty interesting. That's not the TKD way of doing a low block, which makes it difficult to answer your question of how often it's used in TKD sparring. Your kind of.... open-handed redirecting block is not something I'd use against a kick, because I've jacked up my fingers that way a couple times. But the TKD low block, where you're using your ulna (pinkie side of the forearm) to guard the side of your torso, is probably the most common block I use in sparring.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Low Block = Very dependable and versatile technique that can actually be applied in a real fight.

Well I used it three times in a real fight against a front kick with complete success so I would say so.

 

[WaterGal]

FYI.. This is not a realistic application of the low blow technique. However, it is a realistic concept of one of the applications for that type of block dealing with certain kicks. What makes it an unrealistic application is that the lady is in a bow stance when the kick is done. A possible problem that exists below is that the person blocking is at risk for having the elbow kick. One would think that the toes would be hurt from kicking the elbow, but if you put shoes on then it's easy to understand that shoes will win (Jow Ga kicks each other with shoes on so trust me on this one). In a free sparring application there will be a considerable amount of movement and not much time to pose in a bow stance. You can also see that the guy would be able to still connect with the kick.

In the context of the imaginary scenario shown in this photo, her actions don't quite add up.

There is a good reason you might step forward into a front (bow) stance to block a kick - so that your block intercepts your opponent's leg closer to their body (edit: and so you have a more stable base). I'm blanking on the physics explanation for this, but essentially, the lady in this photo is blocking the kick at the point where it's the most powerful and thus poses the most risk of injuring her arm. If she moved closer to him and could block his leg at his knee or thigh, she'd be taking a much less powerful impact on her arm.

But at their range, it looks like she had to move forward into the front stance just to reach his foot! If her back foot stayed where it is and she was in an upright fighting stance, he'd have missed her entirely. She'd have been better off waiting or stepping back and then counterstriking.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your video is pretty interesting. That's not the TKD way of doing a low block, which makes it difficult to answer your question of how often it's used in TKD sparring. Your kind of.... open-handed redirecting block is not something I'd use against a kick, because I've jacked up my fingers that way a couple times.

I don't use an open hand when I do this type of block against kicks. In Jow Ga we use a closed fist the same way that TKD uses. The close fist protects the fingers. The only difference in some some schools is that some may use the fist to block, while others use the fist to damage the legs while block, theoretically it's not a block as much as it is a strike.

I use the same block for a punch with my hands open or closed depending on the height the punch. If someone punches towards my stomach then I'll use it with my fist closed so I can smash that punching arm. In the video you see me use the close fist version of the block to strike his kicking leg. In the video I misread the kick. I was expecting it to be a front heel kick but he turned it into something else. If he did a front heal kick then I would have had a text book example of one of the drills that we do. But instead I traded off a kick to my groin for a hit to the back side of his knee. In a real fight I would have been screwed for misreading the kick and applying the wrong technique for that type of kick.

If I know someone has unconditioned forearms then I would leave my guy open so I can smash their forearm. If I get lucky then I'll hit the nerve in the arm. I also have to be careful of not hitting the back of the elbow of my sparring partner when I do this as it may hyper extend his elbow.