Freeze, flight or FIGHT!

[Wing Woo Gar37]

Its a choice.

I don't think people realise how fast things turn bad in fights. And therefore how quickly you have to deal with that.

Imagine you have a panic attack and how overwhelming it is. How quickly it comes on And how long it takes to recover.

And then add someone punching you in the head while that's is happening.

It is kind of an unreasonable expectation that somehow you will resolve both at once. With some meditation or yelling or whatever.

Meditation has helped in a limited way for a limited time during long tattoo sessions. Tattoo is a whole lot easier than being punched and kicked. Yelling is for sex.

 

[Wing Woo Gar37]

Get your mind out of the gutter!

See #41

 

[Kung Fu Wang103]

If you have to fight. You have to deal with emotions

Even when a fight starts, you can always play 100% defense. Your opponent may stop fighting because:

- He can't hit you.
- You have no intention to hurt him.

Both you and your opponent can live happy ever after.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Lots of good stuff so far. Got me "hyperaroused," as Haruhiko would say. Some related thoughts of mine:

1) Kikioji- Being afraid on hearing your enemy's fearsome reputation.​

2) Mikuzure - Being afraid on seeing that your enemy looks very fierce and strong.

3) Futanren- Inadequate training.​

3 is mitigated by effective, practical training strategies, but 1 and 2 required some sort of mental preparation because it is one’s mind that is making you stumble.

If one fights only when there is no other choice, I think the luxury of fear drops away - only necessity remains - the will to live. Commitment and reliance on deep repetitive training can determine the winner. See below:

Japanese martial arts focus on mushin (無心). No mind, no hesitation. It’s not about getting yourself fired up, it’s about removing that split second delay where you second guess and get hit.

A certain detachment is necessary, even as adrenaline is surging. Not always easy.

As Parker was fond of saying, "He who hesitates meditates in the horizontal position."

I don't think people realise how fast things turn bad in fights. And therefore how quickly you have to deal with that.

So true. It only takes one slip or missed technique for an able opponent to take and press the advantage. That's why IMO all the fancy stuff one might try in sport should be discarded for actual combat unless you are very very good at it. IMO, remove as much risk as possible in your attacks. My strategy is to keep it simple, fast and furious.

but some confidence is necessary.

Very. Confidence requires good hard training and having faith in it. Some prior success is also useful.

hyperarousal

What a great word! In the proper situation, a very good thing. Best shared with another.

Even when a fight starts, you can always play 100% defense. Your opponent may stop fighting because:

- He can't hit you.
- You have no intention to hurt him.

I strongly disagree here, unless you clearly outclass your opponent. Your theory may then work, sometimes. See drop bear's quote above.

 

[Kung Fu Wang103]

unless you clearly outclass your opponent. Your theory may then work, sometimes. See drop bear's quote above.

One of my students who has only trained with me for 8 months can already do that. In those 8 moths, we met 4 times a week, 2 hours a session. In those 2 hours, we put on gloves and fought full contact. 8 months later, he got into a bar fight. His opponent could not even land a single punch on him. Finally, his opponent sat down and didn't know what had just happened. Nobody was hurt. it was a happy ending. My student came back to me next day and said, "It works! It works!".

In another thread, I address that one should spend 50% of his training time to develop his defense skill - not to let his opponent's punch to land on his head.

Is it that hard for a serious trained MA person to outclass non-training opponent?

 

[Kung Fu Wang103]

Confidence requires good hard training and having faith in it. Some prior success is also useful.

"Prior success" is the key word here. We can only accumulate "prior success" when we were still young.

 

[drop bear103]

To push "it" down requires a specific state of mind(s).

It sounds like @drop bear is advocating for a constant state of pathological hyperarousal?

Which is a PTSD thing?

 

[Buka20]

I’ve been on MT for a while. This just might be my favorite thread, ever.

And Drop Bears post, “Being a sociopath takes quite a bit of work. So I am not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze” is something I’ll quote forever.

And I don’t think anyone here has been wrong in anything they’ve said. It’s pretty much all the same thing. I could agree with every post and in no way feel wrong in doing so. Dealing with violence, dealing with fight, flight, freeze or F you, comes down to training and/or experience.

It ain’t rocket surgery.

 

[Fungus94]

Its a choice.

fight, flight, freeze or fawn are I think by definition not cognitive choices, they are autonomous response of the nervous system. They take command and priority of cognitive control.

The only way to avoid happening, is to make sure the system threat isn't triggered when you dont' want to it. And this most certainly has both neurobiological explanations as been affected by previous traumatic events or training.

In see one part of training in MA, is the attain a level of perception of control, even in escalated situations. This is what will increase the treshold for triggering autonomic responses.

Edit: For me i see this as part of the mental conditioning. Ie getting used to taking hits, know how it feels etc, means you are no more control. For example know that, this will hurt, but I can take it, I will love, increases control, and knowing exactly what you have to deal with if you consider trading one attack for another. I learned alot here since I started. Exactly how much does this or that hurt? When is it fine to accept one, if i can trade it in for an opening for a counter that is more destructive? This kind of tactics is whan I like to think of. Trade a slap for a fist, trade a feet for a knee, trade a torso kick for a head kick.. all good trades. I think the idea that you can win without pain is somewhat of an illusion.

 

[Wing Woo Gar37]

Which is a PTSD thing?

Maybe so, good catch.

 

[Wing Woo Gar37]

fight, flight, freeze or fawn are I think by definition not cognitive choices, they are autonomous response of the nervous system. They take command and priority of cognitive control.

The only way to avoid happening, is to make sure the system threat isn't triggered when you dont' want to it. And this most certainly has both neurobiological explanations as been affected by previous traumatic events or training.

In see one part of training in MA, is the attain a level of perception of control, even in escalated situations. This is what will increase the treshold for triggering autonomic responses.

Edit: For me i see this as part of the mental conditioning. Ie getting used to taking hits, know how it feels etc, means you are no more control. For example know that, this will hurt, but I can take it, I will love, increases control, and knowing exactly what you have to deal with if you consider trading one attack for another. I learned alot here since I started. Exactly how much does this or that hurt? When is it fine to accept one, if i can trade it in for an opening for a counter that is more destructive? This kind of tactics is whan I like to think of. Trade a slap for a fist, trade a feet for a knee, trade a torso kick for a head kick.. all good trades. I think the idea that you can win without pain is somewhat of an illusion.

Trading a fat lip for a broken jaw is a saying I’ve heard before.

 

[isshinryuronin]

One of my students who has only trained with me for 8 months can already do that. In those 8 moths, we met 4 times a week, 2 hours a session. In those 2 hours, we put on gloves and fought full contact. 8 months later, he got into a bar fight. His opponent could not even land a single punch on him. Finally, his opponent sat down and didn't know what had just happened. Nobody was hurt. it was a happy ending. My student came back to me next day and said, "It works! It works!".

In another thread, I address that one should spend 50% of his training time to develop his defense skill - not to let his opponent's punch to land on his head.

Is it that hard for a serious trained MA person to outclass non-training opponent?

Seems like your student had a good teacher. You gave him the equivalent of 2 years of normal training. But even monkeys fall out of trees - there's always some risk the longer the fight lasts.