flatlander said:
Paul,
Thank you for the insight. The question this raises with me, FLATLANDER, is are the forms that varied in terms of actual movements? Does anyone see this as being a bad thing? A good thing? Immaterial to the fundamental concepts?
Sorry to goof your name, flatlander!
The forms are varied in terms of actual movement, but that is where the least variation exists. The empty hand forms are borrowed from shotokan, the stick forms are all Remy. Forms 6-8 were added later by other influences from form based art practitioners, but were "approved" by Professor Presas.
In terms of actual movement, I have seen different techniques altogether; different punches, different feet forward, etc, etc, etc. It's kind of the same template....but not exactly the same template.
My belief is that forms were used for self-expression, and marketing the art to forms-based artists. There was kind of a template...but (and notice I said kind of) and that is about it. It gave the student ownership of something early on; if a kung-fu guy did his forms with a kung fu stylistic flavor, then that was his self-expression.
Now, to my utmost annoyance, at the old IMAF camps when Professor was alive, people often missed the point. I would learn a form from my teacher and was told, it's the art within your art, do what you'd like, it's all the same. I'd learn more forms at the camps. Then I'd test, doing them stylistically like TKD, because I had a TKD background. I was told, no, thats not right, you have to do them more like Shotokan, because that's where they came from. I'd learn them like Shotokan, then someone else at another test or event would say, no, that's not right, you have to do them with a filipino flavor. I'd do them that way....but that wouldn't be right either by someone with a different opinion. Finally, I said screw it, I'm doing it MY way. That's when I got it the point! I would learn everyones way, from who-ever was covering forms that day during the forms session, and I'd do it their way, then I'd change it to do it my way on my own and with my students.
I'll never forget the MI summer camp (a few years before Remy's passing), when I was over with the black belts, and we were going to split up with forms instruction and black belt tapi-tapi. Professor had left 2 people in charge of coordinating. One of them asked, "O.K....who here knows forms well enough to teach them?" In my unwise youth, I raised my hand. Out of about 20 or more black belts, only about 2 others did as well. The funny thing was, I was just answering a question honestly; I could teach forms if needed, and I taught forms before. However, I didn't really WANT to teach the damn things. The 2 black belts "in charge" exchanged wierd condensending glances with a few others, then looked back at me like I had just s**t on the floor or something. After an awkward silence, someone said, "We don't know if your ready to teach forms yet." Now...of course I am thinking, what a bunch of dopes. But, I just shrugged, said, "Fine...I'll just hang out and tapi-tapi. No problem." Then someone else said (who was very well meaning, I might add), "No no, we don't want your feelings to be hurt, or anything. We just don't know if you can teach the forms because we haven't seen you. So, why don't you work with Lisa (Mcmanus), and she can make sure your up to speed for next time." I shrugged again, and said, "Sure...whatever you guys want to do" THinking in my head that I'd rather go play single stick, but fine, I'll see how Lisa does them differently. Mind you, I had been doing the art since 90, and she had started in like 95 or 96, but SHE was going to ensure that I was up to speed. Whatever... I figured that it ought to be entertaining at the very least.
It was. We did 1-6. I only made "a few mistakes," meaning that we had some stylistic differences. Oh brother. I was glad that I managed to get some single stick play in that night, anyways.
The whole thing was annoying to me then, but also very humerous at the same time. The multitude of people, black-belts and all, who failed to "get the point" all surfaced when it came time to do forms. I get a good laugh thinking about those times.
Flatlander...learn the template, then do one of 2 things. Do it the way your teacher teaches you, and wants for his group, or do it the way YOU want to do it within the basic template. Just know WHY your doing things the way you are. Dan Anderson I am sure will cover the forms well if you ordered his material. Tim Hartman, Datu Worden (I think), and IMAF, Inc. (I think) all have material out for forms as well.
PAUL
P.S....how many of you remember when forms 7 and 8 were "the secret forms." :rofl: I remember hearing about forms 7 and 8. So, I figured I'd ask a few higher ranked people if they could show me it. By the time I got the third, "I don't know if your ready to see that yet" or "I don't know if I am ALLOWED to show you those yet," "because those are the secret forms" I gave up. I remember lterally laughing out loud by myself about that one. Secret froms? WTF! :rofl: That never ceases to crack me up. It's funny how "the secret forms" became a part of the normal cirriculum by 2000.
The Idiocy in martial arts sometimes never ceases to amaze me.
I hope you all don't think I am being negative here, but I am just speaking the truth. The mystery shrouding forms, and "secret forms" stepped way over the border of ridiculesness. :uhyeah:
)
It would also be my imagination that I have been taught at least three different ways to do every form except stick form #2! :rofl: 
