Forms 9 & 10

Goldendragon7

Goldendragon7

Grandmaster
Since Form 8 is the last form created by Ed Parker, should anyone develop a Form 9 and 10, or should we just leave well enough alone?

If Yes, then who, what, where, on what theme, etc. etc...............

:confused: :asian:
 
From my understanding, Form 6 was the last form created by Mr. Parker.

I do not know who made 7 and 8 though.
 
I think it would be beneficial. As it is now, depending on your organization, there is not "material" after 3rd or 5th black. I thgink it would be great to make and maintain a standard that allows people to exceed 5th degree black belt while having the added benefit of new material.
 
Well,

Based on Mr. Hancock's book he (Mr. Hancock) developed A (not THE) form 9 years ago, near Mr. Parker's death, and Mr. Parker never had a chance to completely look at. I think he also mentioned something about form 9 or 10 (in SGM Parker's eyes) being a firearms form, which would fall in line with the continued evolution of the forms (empty hands, stick, knife...). Which could be possible since he was an avid gun enthusiast according to Doc. So in that regard I'm not sure how many Kenpo instructors would be qualified to create such a form.

One thing is that when one thinks of standard American Kenpo it isn't really associated with "creating" anything "new" at this point. Without sounding too negative every thread that proposes anything "new" boils down to it already being in the system. SGM Parker's genius probably was never intended to stifle the system, but I think because he was so are ahead that that is exactly what it has done. Most seminars are on "current problem techniques", looking at current basics, looking at current misunderstandings or personal interpetations of current techiques, concepts and principles, reviewing the current forms and clarifying at nausum every current intricacy of the system leaving very little time learn anything different. Of course the big secret is that even best friends who are both 5th's thru 10th's probably teach most of the techniques differently based on their own preferred emphasis (or base on the way Mr. Parker showed "them"). Just my thoughts on the matter....

Regards, jb:asian:
 
Jason,
You make some excellent points. I think we can agree that the upper part of the system is mainly a reiteration of the lower part of the system. Keeping that in mind, wouldn't adding some extended curriculuum reinforce it even more or maybe even explain some of the more advanced PCTs even nore thoroughly? I think that as those that were closest to Mr. parker grow older, that they may need to leave a bit more behind for future generations that will not have the opportunity to have worked with Mr. Parker or his 1st generation people.
Seig
 
Originally posted by Seig
I think it would be beneficial. As it is now, depending on your organization, there is not "material" after 3rd or 5th black. I thgink it would be great to make and maintain a standard that allows people to exceed 5th degree black belt while having the added benefit of new material.
Click to expand...

Yes there is- the stick and knife forms. The twenety- four has them for fourth and fifth black. They are mini systems for these weapons- not easy to figure out. Can be somewhat unuseful if done in a way that treats the weapon as an object.. which is how I have seen them interpreted for the most part.

Mike Pick says he has 9 and 10 (knife forms) that were developed with Mr. Parker. He used to have some techniques out of these forms on the net many years ago. If I remember correctly they were particularly precise in a destructive nature.
 
Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Since Form 8 is the last form created by Ed Parker, should anyone develop a Form 9 and 10, or should we just leave well enough alone?

If Yes, then who, what, where, on what theme, etc. etc...............

:confused: :asian:
Click to expand...

Fellow Kenpoists,

I feel the development of new forms (and for that matter techniques and sets) would be beneficial for the Kenpo System.

It would be difficult to create a standard curriculum accepted by the Kenpo Community (as we could imagine), but if there was sufficient knowledge and reasoning behind the ideas... why not!

Themes that I would be interested in focusing on would be many of the topics talked about right here in this very forum; applications on the ground and more focused weapons applications. I also like the idea of a form focused on firearms.

I was also thinking of a more extensive and complex two-man form.

Just my ideas... look forward to seeing others!

Good journey and happy holidays!

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer
IKKA
UPK Pittsburgh
 
I'm not sure how beneficial having a couple of more forms would be. Realistically speaking I doubt that i'll get past form 6 in life. Meaning that I have enough to work on for the rest of my life as to refine, redo, relearn, and find my own way of performing the techniques with my own nitche. Again, how many of us here have both forms 7 & 8 to go on to learn a 9 or 10? :asian:
 
This is the first time I heard that they went beyond 7 forms!

For me, I'm working on Long 8, in our system,(The last one) and I already have enough on my plate to work on, as well as to pass on.:erg:
 
If anything, Form 7 (stick form) and Form 8 ( knife form) have a long way to go in and of themselves. I like Form 7 okay, but it really doesn't teach you to use the sticks all that well. But it does provide some platform that someone with some skill with a stick can make work. I have seen 8 and was not impressed in the least. Looks like Finger Set with knives in your hands. It is awkward and not very "knife-like". I have no desire to learn it. I really question how much, if any, of 8 Mr. Parker had a hand in it. It really is more of a "set" than it is a "form," as it really doesn't have techniques put together in a cohesive format like you have in the other forms.

I think these areas would have been refined if not completely overhauled had there been time, especially a knife form.


Derek
 
I seen a video tape of Mr. Hancock doing a knife form from many years ago. It looked totally awesome how he was able to manipulate the knives how he needed them. Now I don't know if that was truely the #8 or if it was his own form but it looked totally cool.:asian:
 
Originally posted by Rainman
Yes there is- the stick and knife forms. The twenety- four has them for fourth and fifth black. They are mini systems for these weapons- not easy to figure out. Can be somewhat unuseful if done in a way that treats the weapon as an object.. which is how I have seen them interpreted for the most part.

Mike Pick says he has 9 and 10 (knife forms) that were developed with Mr. Parker. He used to have some techniques out of these forms on the net many years ago. If I remember correctly they were particularly precise in a destructive nature.
Click to expand...


Yes that is correct. But then again, everything Mr. Pick teaches is precise in a destructive nature.


Tom Chase
UKF
 
Well in our school we don't do the forms in the original system other than Short and Long 1. Every form after that is a creative form. I'm ready, go ahead and let me have it.
 
I have heard from several different source that 7 + 8 were not created by Mr Parker. I can believe this since it follows a logical pattern of evolution (i.e. many of the sets were not created by Mr Parker but rather by some of his top seniors)

So, does anyone know who created forms 7 + 8 ? And if you want to add new forms to the system then maybe all the current top senior could get together and create the new material TOGETHER. Now, I know that there is no chance of that happening but if it could be done then we could see all the different blends of Mr Parkers teachings. That would really help put all the piece together

Just my thought and please remember that my thoughts and a coke could get you a only coke
 
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