Five elements

[Kasho]

How many people here have studied the five elements?

Which version do you study?
(Void, Wind, Fire, Water, Earth (ground) or the Wood, Metal version).

Today do you apply this to your art or life?

And if anyone would, what is your view of the “Void” Good/Bad?


Thanks!
Brad

 

[Elayna]

Kasho...

I am familiar with the five elements, but I have never heard them refered to as you have.
Here is how I know them....

Water, Fire, Earth,Wind and Love.

Not sure if this is what you are referring too.

If you could elaborate I would appreciate it. Thanks...

 

[Bigshadow]

And if anyone would, what is your view of the “Void” Good/Bad?

My opinion of it is good, haven't been there, but I believe one manifestation to be mushin at it's finest.

 

[CuongNhuka]

You should be more specific about such things. China, Japan and Europe all have differnit intrpritations about the way the elements react. And I agree with bigshadow on void/no-thing/akasha (void = China; no-thing = Japan; akasha = Europe)

 

[Kasho]

Which version do you study?

Sorry to take so long to get back here I have been a little busy.

There are many versions of the elements and many arts apply them to their system. Just wishing to know if this is something that is taught in your school?

One view and a description of this is by Miyamoto Musashi in his book: A Book Of Five Rings. A great book on strategy!

Thanks,
Brad

 

[Jade Tigress]

How many people here have studied the five elements?

Which version do you study?
(Void, Wind, Fire, Water, Earth (ground) or the Wood, Metal version).

Today do you apply this to your art or life?

And if anyone would, what is your view of the “Void” Good/Bad?


Thanks!
Brad

The 5 elements were part of my Sil Lum training. We used Earth, Metal, Wood, Fire, and Water.

I never heard of any of the others mentioned.

 

[Brother John]

Yes.
I use the Chinese version:Fire, water, metal, wood & earth.
These are based on the Taoist medicine, or TCM disciplines. They relate, amongst a great many things, to the natures of the meridians that run through the body; according to accu-theory. VERY important for the study of Dim Mak or Dian-Xiu or Kyushojitsu.

I've also studied the Japanese version, but that's not related really. It has more to do with an analogy of physical motion than with the nature of energies.

Hope that makes sense.
Interesting topic.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

What about you Brad? How does Kasho "make use of the elements"??

...what model do you teach your students?

Your Brother
John

 

[zDom]

I believe Hapkido would be a "water" art

 

[pstarr]

They (the Chinese version) are an important part of traditional Chinese medicine but it's too easy to get sidetracked on trying to see how they work together (or whatever) insofar as sombat goes...

 

[Xue Sheng]

The 5 elements were part of my Sil Lum training. We used Earth, Metal, Wood, Fire, and Water.

I never heard of any of the others mentioned.

Void I believe is the Japanese version.

I am also more familiar with the Chinese version, in Xingyi, Taiji, Bagua, Qigong and what little I know of TCM

 

[Jade Tigress]

Void I believe is the Japanese version.

I am also more familiar with the Chinese version, in Xingyi, Taiji, Bagua, Qigong and what little I know of TCM

Oh, I see. I know nothing about Japanese arts so that is a very odd concept to me.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh, I see. I know nothing about Japanese arts so that is a very odd concept to me.

I know a little about Japanese arts and it’s an odd concept to me. I don't quite understand the terminology of Void being an element

And to make it more confusing I never heard of it when I practiced Japanese arts, I heard after I had been in CMA for a while.

 

[Flatlander]

My exposure to genuine teaching of the 5 elements is largely insufficient. However, intellectually, my feelings are best summed up by my post here.

Mind you, I could quite feasibly be rather off base with my understanding. I have a counter question, mainly due to my lack of knowledge regarding the topic at hand. Why would one study only one version of the philosophy?

Which version do you study?
(Void, Wind, Fire, Water, Earth (ground) or the Wood, Metal version).

It seems to me that JKD studies all 5.

 

[RevIV]

:Fire, water, metal, wood & earth.

These were the ones i was taught in Shiatsu and are also the ones my Accupuncturist uses when working. In the medical sense of the word when they are arranged in a proper cirlce they become a nourishing cycle. That same circle with a star drawn in the middle will show the control cycle. example: fire nourishes earth... wood controls earth. Hope this helps and is probably basic for most of the people posting on this topic.
In Peace,
Jesse

 

[Brother John]

:Fire, water, metal, wood & earth.

These were the ones i was taught in Shiatsu and are also the ones my Accupuncturist uses when working. In the medical sense of the word when they are arranged in a proper cirlce they become a nourishing cycle. That same circle with a star drawn in the middle will show the control cycle. example: fire nourishes earth... wood controls earth. Hope this helps and is probably basic for most of the people posting on this topic.
In Peace,
Jesse

Exactly.
Both Shiatsu (and it's Chinese counterpart: Tui-Na) and TCM arts like accupuncture work on the same premise..... that each of the meridians correspond to one of these elements (in the Chinese version of the elements) and that by 'activating' them in a certain sequence it is healthful, and in another....harmful. I won't go into TOO much detail really, I think that if you're not taught this material...you should find out on your own.

Flatlander: The Japanese and Chinese versions of this are very different, yet in some regards they overlap. BUT: If you try to take the Japanese version and apply it to accupuncture/shiatsu/accupressure...etc... it just won't work. The way it is applied in the Go Rin No Sho (book of five rings, by Mushashi) it's more about the strategic dynamic in combat....based on attitudes. The Chinese is related, but much much broader.

Don't know if that explains it well, but I tried.
It's a rather 'etherial' subject....and I don't even come close to qualifying as an expert.

Your Brother
John

 

[Jade Tigress]

It's interesting that everyone refers to the 5 elements in terms of medicine/healing. I wasn't taught about that aspect (yet). I was beginning to learn the combat aspects.

Here is the little I know.

If based on a 9 square grid with you being in the center:

Earth - Is solid, grounded (you are within your center square).
Metal - Is forward movement.
Wood - Is backward, retreating movement.
Fire - Is left sided movement. (the heart, being on the left side is the fire of the body).
Water - Is fluid movements and right sided movement.

If based on Lama (Tibetan) style:

Wood - Is linear, straight punches, back and forth movements.
Fire - Is like an upward block and punch.
Earth - Is circular blocks.
Metal - Downward strikes.
Water - Upward strikes. (water is opposite of metal)

The emphasis in Lama was on swinging arms/crossing back and forth. This was something that was touched on in a seminar I attended and also addressed periodically in class.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xingyiquan

There is a lot of this in Xingyi 5 element boxing. It is associated with different fists

Pi Chuan/Splitting Fist or Metal,
Tsuan Chuan/Drilling Fist or Water,
Bong Chuan/Crushing Fist or Wood,
Po Chuan/Exploding Fist or Fire,
Heng Chuan/Crossing Fist or Earth.

Metal produces water
Water produces Wood
Wood produces Fire
Fire produces Earth
Earth produces Metal

Metal defeats Wood
Wood defeats Earth
Earth defeats Water
Water defeats Fire
Fire defeats Metal

Now apply this to the fists and attacks.
For example, if attacked by Wood, Respond with Metal, etc.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Xingyiquan

There is a lot of this in Xingyi 5 element boxing. It is associated with different fists

Pi Chuan/Splitting Fist or Metal,
Tsuan Chuan/Drilling Fist or Water,
Bong Chuan/Crushing Fist or Wood,
Po Chuan/Exploding Fist or Fire,
Heng Chuan/Crossing Fist or Earth.

Metal produces water
Water produces Wood
Wood produces Fire
Fire produces Earth
Earth produces Metal

Metal defeats Wood
Wood defeats Earth
Earth defeats Water
Water defeats Fire
Fire defeats Metal

Now apply this to the fists and attacks.
For example, if attacked by Wood, Respond with Metal, etc.

Yes, I remember this too now that you mention it. I was just starting to learn more about the 5 elements when we moved..

This is what I have as far as fists..
Wood - Straight punch
Fire - Leaping deer (our term)
Earth - Whipping branch (our term)
Metal - Hammer fist (our term)
Water - Like an upper cut

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes, I remember this too now that you mention it. I was just starting to learn more about the 5 elements when we moved..

This is what I have as far as fists..
Wood - Straight punch
Fire - Leaping deer (our term)
Earth - Whipping branch (our term)
Metal - Hammer fist (our term)
Water - Like an upper cut

If I get a chance or I should say if I can find it I will post a link to Xingyi 5 element boxing vid, if one exists that I can post. You would probably find the 5 element linking form interesting.