Finally, a way to train realistically with knives...

[Don Roley]

Sir! ....same planet, different worlds!!! I have been studying martial arts for 25 years and have never needed a lawyer

I have been driving for decades and never been in a bad accident. What is your point?

Honestly, what you are saying would scare a lawyer to death. You owe it to yourself to go and tell him what you said here rather than waiting for after you get into a situation where you use your knife.

 

[JenniM]

I have been driving for decades and never been in a bad accident. What is your point?

Honestly, what you are saying would scare a lawyer to death. You owe it to yourself to go and tell him what you said here rather than waiting for after you get into a situation where you use your knife.

Sir, my point is.....do you also retain a lawyer to advise you on what may happen if you by chance are involved in a bad accident or do you rely on your decades of experience and driving skill, knowledge of the law, judgement and common sense that you will do everything you can to avoid being involved in such an accident and if the unimaginable should happen THEN you would consult a lawyer? Different cultures obviously but that's how we do it over here as lawyer fees are extortionate and you don't pay for them unless you need them!! Sir, I thought I had plainly stated in my previous post but I will again clarify so that you are clear - I am well aware of the law in this Country and the legal, moral and psychological aspects of bladework. - as far as Marc MacYoung is concerned, hell yes, he tells it like it is and I agree with a lot of what he says and yes I also have read Lt Col Dave Grossman's "On Killing" and as you don't know me from adam you really are making some pretty huge assumptions about my character - I do thank you for your concern but really rest assured there is no need to be! :asian:

 

[Carol]

Frankly speaking ma'am I too am a little suprised at the the wording of your posts, especially given your relationship with Dr. Ron Chapél, who was giving you props yesterday morning on your advice to only train with a professional knife fighter if one wants to learn knife fighting.

Perhaps Dr. Chapél has been more verbose than anyone in the Kenpo forum about knowing the legal consequences of one's actions. Somehow I don't think the notion of using shallow cuts to forestall an attacker as something that would receive the same props from him. I could be wrong, though.

I don't say this out of dirsrespect ma'am, just as a difference of opinion. :asian:

 

[thescottishdude]

I think a plastic knife touching you is good enough to know that you need to improve it to be avoided. It sounds like they are tryign to prepare you for getting cut and slashed as a sort of conditioning?

 

[still learning]

Hello, Just one more thing to add here...if facing a knife fighter..and can't run...I sure other's can add more here...read somewhere about this...

If you have a belt on the pants ..use it as a striking weapon, jackets or shirts wrap your arms and hands,or as a whip, if the person is slashing at you.

Pick-up anything around you..that can be use to fight back..trash cans,bottles, sticks,stones,rocks (Is there a difference between stone and rocks?), spit, throw dirt, anything.

and always use both your hands when you grab the kinife hand and hang on for life...don't try to get fancy here...Use your head and legs to fight back with...

expect to be cut,stab, slash, and so on....(if you do take away the knife? ...give it back to him...in the neck..stomach,chest,legs,and any place that he will enjoy the gift too.......Aloha

 

[JenniM]

Frankly speaking ma'am I too am a little suprised at the the wording of your posts, especially given your relationship with Dr. Ron Chapél, who was giving you props yesterday morning on your advice to only train with a professional knife fighter if one wants to learn knife fighting.

Perhaps Dr. Chapél has been more verbose than anyone in the Kenpo forum about knowing the legal consequences of one's actions. Somehow I don't think the notion of using shallow cuts to forestall an attacker as something that would receive the same props from him. I could be wrong, though.

I don't say this out of dirsrespect ma'am, just as a difference of opinion. :asian:

No disrespect taken at all I assure you and I respect your opinion! - To clarify, my relationship with Dr Chapel is through my current training in Sub Level 4 Kenpo, I have also practiced motion based Kenpo for the past 25 years (and continue to do so) and my interest/limited experience in bladework comes through my training in AMOK over a couple of years with Mr Tom Sotis, the two are totally unrelated, I have my own opinions, formed from my own experience and am not influenced by any props I may or may not receive (even from the Doc who, I might add, I love to death . :asian:

 

[JenniM]

Somehow I don't think the notion of using shallow cuts to forestall an attacker as something that would receive the same props from him. I could be wrong, though.

In case my post is being mis-interpreted I am referring to a blade v blade encounter and not a blade v empty hand and therefore of course I would not be forestalling an empty handed attacker with a blade in any situation!! I apologise if there was any confusion here. :asian:

 

[Carol]

Jenni, you aren't posting here anywhere near enough. Please don't be a stranger, ma'am. :asian:

 

[JenniM]

Jenni, you aren't posting here anywhere near enough. Please don't be a stranger, ma'am. :asian:

Carol, Time gets the better of me - I read everything but rarely post and when I do it seems I cause trouble lol!!! But thankyou - I will try!!:asian:

 

[Don Roley]

Sir, my point is.....do you also retain a lawyer to advise you on what may happen if you by chance are involved in a bad accident or do you rely on your decades of experience and driving skill, knowledge of the law, judgement and common sense that you will do everything you can to avoid being involved in such an accident and if the unimaginable should happen THEN you would consult a lawyer?

False analogy.

Driving is a daily reality for both of us. We see cars all around us. I went through a course in high school on the use of a car and the laws regarding them. I took a test on the law before they let me take the driving portion of the test. New laws are reported in the news when they happen.

None of the above can be said about knife fighting.

Maybe we need to split these posts off to its own thread because what you are saying scares the heck out of me. You say you know the law. Are you so certain that you are willing to ruin your families future over it? Did you learn from a martial arts teacher, a friend, an internet forum? Or did you learn from a fully qualified lawyer? Have you heard what a pathologist would say if he saw the after effects of those slices you advocate? Do you think that it might be best to know now before you end up being sold for cigs by some guy named Bubba?

You think I am overreacting? Talk to Peyton Quinn who was ambushed with his friend by three guys and ended up having to fight for months to stay out of prison and ended up spending tens of thousands of dollars to do so. He said it best that you have to survive the initial attack, the criminal case next and then the civil case the other side can bring against you before you can say that you 'won' a street fight.

Let me show you just how complicated things can get. I have an aquaintance who has a very real reason to be paranoid. He works for the goverment around some bad, insane people that are known for holding grudges and he is afraid of some of them looking him up later. He carries a Spyderco Civilian knife for this purpose. He talked to a lawyer familiar with cases of violence and was told that if he ever used the thing he could add about 100,000 dollars to his legal fees as a general rule. Mind you, if it came down to violence he is well known and regarded in the legal system and his attacker would have a history of crimes and insanity as well as being known to have dealt with my friend behind bars. Despite that going for him, he is still aware that if he ever has to use that nasty looking little knife, the trouble he would face getting clear would be a few years of his salary.

Now, what if you are not as clear cut or known as that in your case? What kind of legal troubles do you think you can get into?

I may have an advantage over you in interacting with law enforcement officers, prosecuters and proffesionals like that through friendship and family. But you can still get the information from a good source. There are sources out there than can help you keep your house and freedom after you have been attacked. But you are going to have to do a little research from vaild sources and maybe spend some money. Think of it as an investment for your family and their future. You owe it to them.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Maybe we need to split these posts off to its own thread because what you are saying scares the heck out of me. You say you know the law. Are you so certain that you are willing to ruin your families future over it? Did you learn from a martial arts teacher, a friend, an internet forum? Or did you learn from a fully qualified lawyer? Have you heard what a pathologist would say if he saw the after effects of those slices you advocate? Do you think that it might be best to know now before you end up being sold for cigs by some guy named Bubba?

You think I am overreacting? Talk to Peyton Quinn who was ambushed with his friend by three guys and ended up having to fight for months to stay out of prison and ended up spending tens of thousands of dollars to do so. He said it best that you have to survive the initial attack, the criminal case next and then the civil case the other side can bring against you before you can say that you 'won' a street fight.

Let me show you just how complicated things can get. I have an aquaintance who has a very real reason to be paranoid. He works for the goverment around some bad, insane people that are known for holding grudges and he is afraid of some of them looking him up later. He carries a Spyderco Civilian knife for this purpose. He talked to a lawyer familiar with cases of violence and was told that if he ever used the thing he could add about 100,000 dollars to his legal fees as a general rule. Mind you, if it came down to violence he is well known and regarded in the legal system and his attacker would have a history of crimes and insanity as well as being known to have dealt with my friend behind bars. Despite that going for him, he is still aware that if he ever has to use that nasty looking little knife, the trouble he would face getting clear would be a few years of his salary.

Now, what if you are not as clear cut or known as that in your case? What kind of legal troubles do you think you can get into?

I may have an advantage over you in interacting with law enforcement officers, prosecuters and proffesionals like that through friendship and family. But you can still get the information from a good source. There are sources out there than can help you keep your house and freedom after you have been attacked. But you are going to have to do a little research from vaild sources and maybe spend some money. Think of it as an investment for your family and their future. You owe it to them.

New thread to discuss this VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE, while remaining on topic in this thread:

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=541508#post541508post541508

 

[JenniM]

False analogy.

Driving is a daily reality for both of us. We see cars all around us. I went through a course in high school on the use of a car and the laws regarding them. I took a test on the law before they let me take the driving portion of the test. New laws are reported in the news when they happen.

Ok I take your point but if you had no desire or intention of actually driving a car for the foreseeable future would you still have taken the high school course on the use of a car and the laws regarding them? - IMHO you would not - I have absolutely no intention of using a knife- but I can't categorically say I never would if my life depended on it (and yes by that I mean my life or my family's life was about to end) - hence I equip myself with the laws of the land in relation to Self Defence (both empty handed) and Offensive Weapons the best I can (without actually seeing a lawyer!) - and as a matter of fact we have a member of the Police Constabulary coming along to our classes to talk to us about just that!!! - and YES "I AGREE" its vitally important that you are aware of the potential consequences of engaging in any sort of combat legally, morally, ethically, the enormous psychological impact of harming or taking another human being's life, the horrific mutilation/scarring that result from knife attacks.

Maybe we need to split these posts off to its own thread because what you are saying scares the heck out of me.

What exactly scares you so much? Is it that I highlighted the usage of the knife as was imparted to me during my training - was my statement incorrect? is this not what the knife is capable of? Perhaps Mr Sotis is wrong in his teachings! - perhaps you have more knowledge? - I certainly am but a beginner as far as knife fighting goes so I am willing to learn but pussyfooting around what the blade is capable of and how it can be used serves no purpose.

Have you heard what a pathologist would say if he saw the after effects of those slices you advocate?

So now I have to go see a Pathologist as well as a Lawyer??? And I'm am not advocating anything.

You think I am overreacting?

To my original post? - ABSOLUTELY!!

Talk to Peyton Quinn who was ambushed with his friend by three guys and ended up having to fight for months to stay out of prison and ended up spending tens of thousands of dollars to do so. He said it best that you have to survive the initial attack, the criminal case next and then the civil case the other side can bring against you before you can say that you 'won' a street fight.

I can believe that!

Let me show you just how complicated things can get. I have an aquaintance who has a very real reason to be paranoid. He works for the goverment around some bad, insane people that are known for holding grudges and he is afraid of some of them looking him up later. He carries a Spyderco Civilian knife for this purpose. He talked to a lawyer familiar with cases of violence and was told that if he ever used the thing he could add about 100,000 dollars to his legal fees as a general rule. Mind you, if it came down to violence he is well known and regarded in the legal system and his attacker would have a history of crimes and insanity as well as being known to have dealt with my friend behind bars. Despite that going for him, he is still aware that if he ever has to use that nasty looking little knife, the trouble he would face getting clear would be a few years of his salary.

Ouch!!

I may have an advantage over you in interacting with law enforcement officers, prosecuters and proffesionals like that through friendship and family. But you can still get the information from a good source. There are sources out there than can help you keep your house and freedom after you have been attacked. But you are going to have to do a little research from vaild sources and maybe spend some money.

Indeed you may [or not as the case may be!] I see the thread has now been moved - its an interesting one that's for sure - I think its probably time you and I gave it up.

As a matter of interest, a couple of days ago an Off duty Policewoman was fatally stabbed here in the UK as she went outside of her house to investigate a disturbance - the coroner found a single stab wound to the top of her groin (hitting the femoral artery) and she bled to death - today's news suggests that the knife that was used was from her own kitchen and one that she had taken outside with her to investigate the disturbance!! Absolutely tragic circumstances - but had she had the chance to defend herself with that knife, being an off duty Policewoman, who knows how the law would have handled that one!!

Anyway I've enjoyed our exchange, you learn from your own experience and that of others - at the very least its re-kindled my thirst for more knowledge so I guess you've had some influence!!!:asian:

 

[Don Roley]

I think a plastic knife touching you is good enough to know that you need to improve it to be avoided. It sounds like they are tryign to prepare you for getting cut and slashed as a sort of conditioning?

No, they are trying to make you fear the blade. People react differently on different levels when they face something they fear, and when they face something they don't. Kelly McMann on one tape talked about how they would hit the students with simunition rounds (fires from a modified weapon but is like a nasty paint gun round) in the leg. It would not break the uniform, but it hurts like you can't believe. Then they did drills with simunition on simunition encounters and the guys reactied totally differently from when they were using something theyy thought would not hurt all that bad.

Same thing here. You lose some ego when you get hit with a plastic knife and it tells you that you fouled up. But it does not put you in the same fearful mindset as you would be in if you faced a real blade.

And JenniM, I dealt with your last post at the following.http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=545101#post545101
Let us continue it in the appropriate location.

 

[mrhnau]

finally some people have come up with a training knife that simulates the real thing. basically the 'edge' is electrified so if it touches you you get shocked. the idea is to get that fear of pain into you when training that wooden or rubber knives just cant replace.

http://www.shocknife.com/index.html

theyre pretty pricey at $500 each, but if youve got the money then why not?

Just wanted to bump this. Has anyone gotten this knife yet? If so, has it been useful in training? If so, please share. I thought about this thread the other day and wanted to see if anyone new had any experience with it yet.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Martial Arts meets cattle prod, what will they think of next?

 

[mrhnau]

Martial Arts meets cattle prod, what will they think of next?

I like the theory, as long as people don't start having heart attacks, or pace makers stop, or people start losing short term memory. I'm assuming they did safety studies for things like that

 

[Kreth]

I like the theory, as long as people don't start having heart attacks, or pace makers stop, or people start losing short term memory. I'm assuming they did safety studies for things like that

Hopefully using criminals...

 

[7starmantis]

I would be interested in playing around with one, not $500 worth of interested, but all the same