Finally, a way to train realistically with knives...

barriecusvein

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finally some people have come up with a training knife that simulates the real thing. basically the 'edge' is electrified so if it touches you you get shocked. the idea is to get that fear of pain into you when training that wooden or rubber knives just cant replace.

http://www.shocknife.com/index.html

theyre pretty pricey at $500 each, but if youve got the money then why not?
 

CuongNhuka

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It looks like an idea. But I'll just stick with chacking rubber knives. That'll cost a few bucks, and it'll last you a few months. No need for batteries.
 

MJS

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barriecusvein said:
finally some people have come up with a training knife that simulates the real thing. basically the 'edge' is electrified so if it touches you you get shocked. the idea is to get that fear of pain into you when training that wooden or rubber knives just cant replace.

http://www.shocknife.com/index.html

theyre pretty pricey at $500 each, but if youve got the money then why not?

Pretty interesting, but a steep price. You'll certainly get a different reaction compared to seeing the 'cuts' to your body if you're using a marker or chalk.

Mike
 

still learning

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Hello, Thank-you for sharing that info! When most of you train against knife attacks,(free style)...most of you know it is almost impossible to get away without being cut.

Spending that kind of money for electric knife, to find out this out? ....not neccessary.

In one book I read, an Instructor of the police department trains officers around the country including military on knife defense. On the first day he have them all attack him....not one got away without being cut. These were professional there for more training to take back and teach their own people. The lesson...if professional had a hard time...what about you?

In knife attacks...it will happen fast,furious, and may not even be seen,till it is too late......

Most experts...will keep the knife hidden until they attack... Remember practice in class is one thing....in the real world on the streets...caught by surprise...the adrenline kicking in...the heart pounding...the mind..looking at is this happening to me? ....boom..knife is in your body... knife attack in the real streets...this is different feeling here?

best to run......Aloha
 

bobster_ice

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Should this thread not be in the knife forums?


$500? No way man, I wouldnt even spend that amount of money on weights.
 

Martial Tucker

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still learning said:
Most experts...will keep the knife hidden until they attack... Remember practice in class is one thing....in the real world on the streets...caught by surprise...the adrenline kicking in...the heart pounding...the mind..looking at is this happening to me? ....boom..knife is in your body... knife attack in the real streets...this is different feeling here?

best to run......Aloha
This is a very good point. If you see someone who is moving towards you and is seemingly keeping one hand hidden, move away. If they adjust and continue towards you, still keeping the hand hidden, you can bet they have a weapon in the hidden hand.


As for the $500 knife, a couple of alternatives:

1. Get any training knife and apply any cheap, red lipstick around the edge of the blade. It will be obvious when you are "cut".

2. Get a cordless curling iron for about $15-$20. Heat it up and use it as a practice knife. Again, you will know when you are "cut".

Both of these are better done wearing t-shirts than gi/doboks.
 

mrhnau

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I'd love something like that, but its about 10x too expensive for my taste... anyone here have any experience with it? I'd like to hear some opinions if so...
 

Don Roley

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I think people have missed the idea behind this thing.

Yeah, chalking or putting lipstick on a knife will tell you that you you fouled up. You lose a little pride. Are you really as scared of if as you would a real knife?

A few weeks ago I read Grossman's "On Killing." A damn interesting read from my perspective.

Did you know that different parts of the brain deal with different situations as in life and death type of things? Grossman uses the term "conditioning" and actively draws a parallel with the stuff by Pavlov for training people to deal with deadly situations.

But you can simulate a deadly situation close enough to make the brain think it is one and some armies have been using this for decades.

This thing does not only tell you when you got hit, it is about as nasty as a dinner with my mother in law. It is not like a chalked knife, it is like feeling a knife cut into you from what I hear. You fear the knife and react like a real one after a hit or two.

I read a review by John Farhham a while back. Of all the things at a recent show, this was one of the things he singled out for praise and said he was going to get one. I am considering getting one now. I just happen to have someone who owes me just the same amount as this knife. Yeah it is costly. But I expect to lend it out to others and get some favors in kind for its use.

I will come back and give my opinion when I do.
 

DavidCC

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Chalking or lip-sticking a knife will tell you after the fact where you got cut, but it looks like this thing will give you immediate stimulus that you will react to during the struggle.

Looks like a lot of fun LOL.
 

mrhnau

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I've not had the time to totally read the advertisements, but what -would- be fun would be a pressure sensetive trigger.. you get more shock with more force used. If you would just have been lightly injured, you get a small shock. You get your arm cut off, you get a huge shock... that would be quite informative when training.. now, granted, even a small cut can cause quite a bit of bleeding and danger, but still... would be interesting :)
 

terryl965

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All I can say is it is a unique ideal but the price tag is hefty and unrealistic for me.
Terry
 

JenniM

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still learning said:
In one book I read, an Instructor of the police department trains officers around the country including military on knife defense. On the first day he have them all attack him....not one got away without being cut. These were professional there for more training to take back and teach their own people. The lesson...if professional had a hard time...what about you?

In knife attacks...it will happen fast,furious, and may not even be seen,till it is too late......

Most experts...will keep the knife hidden until they attack... Remember practice in class is one thing....in the real world on the streets...caught by surprise...the adrenline kicking in...the heart pounding...the mind..looking at is this happening to me? ....boom..knife is in your body... knife attack in the real streets...this is different feeling here? - best to run......Aloha

Hi there,

I spent a little time training in AMOK with Mr Tom Sotis which I really enjoyed and man did this open my eyes to the reality of blades!! Bladework is a mentality and therefore you have to train as realistically in class as you can - we used the marker training knives in various scenarios, blade v blade, blade v empty hand, blade v stick and it was kind of a leveller to leave class looking like a zebra!!! In full blade mode, a blade has numerous applications ranging from deterrent strikes with shallow cuts to fingers, hands and arms to repel your attacker, and at crisis point you can simply progress to deeper slashing and thrusting when you want to incapacitate or the last resort of deadly force is necessary. I therefore think that both the training blades that leave their mark and the "shock" training blade probably both have their uses, I certainly agree that you are able to be cut without actually feeling it, due to the adrenalin dump, especially with the more shallow cuts, - using a little bit of reverse psychology at this point to refer your opponent to his/her bleeding cut can in some cases end the confrontation, because visual impact of bleeding can often result in the psychological halting of aggression. So you're not always going to feel something when you've been cut, in fact if you're pumped up and up against a professional knife fighter you certainly wont until its too late!!! Having said that I am sure the opposite is also true in the deeper slashing and thrusting where you certainly do feel the cut and shock would probably then set in - hence I guess this new blade would probably have its uses - but maybe it would be a little late at this point - just my thoughts on an interesting subject:asian:
 

Andrew Green

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So am I the only one questioning the "It's for realism" bit when the guy in the picture looks like a schi fi version of a evil pillsbury doe boy with all that padding?

It looks like a low budget movie space suit...? Realism in training? what?
 

JenniM

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Andrew Green said:
So am I the only one questioning the "It's for realism" bit when the guy in the picture looks like a schi fi version of a evil pillsbury doe boy with all that padding?

It looks like a low budget movie space suit...? Realism in training? what?

LOL!! I'm with you on that one - the gear's shocking all by itself without the knife! - Not sure I could move in all that gear though - never trained in it but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has and its pros/cons.
 

terryl965

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Andrew Green said:
So am I the only one questioning the "It's for realism" bit when the guy in the picture looks like a schi fi version of a evil pillsbury doe boy with all that padding?

It looks like a low budget movie space suit...? Realism in training? what?

No andrew I agree with your statement also.
Terry
 

Blindside

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Andrew Green said:
So am I the only one questioning the "It's for realism" bit when the guy in the picture looks like a schi fi version of a evil pillsbury doe boy with all that padding?

It looks like a low budget movie space suit...? Realism in training? what?

I just assumed it was so the defender could use hard contact striking during his defense, much like Fist/Redman/High Gear suits are. In most of those scenarios the defender doesn't wear gear.

Lamont
 

Don Roley

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mrhnau said:
I've not had the time to totally read the advertisements, but what -would- be fun would be a pressure sensetive trigger.. you get more shock with more force used. If you would just have been lightly injured, you get a small shock. You get your arm cut off, you get a huge shock... that would be quite informative when training..

That would be cool. Give them ten years and maybe they can do it. I would love more to see a case where you could safely stab someone with something like this. Even without an edge, a solid piece of metal like this could do some damage and is the one big reason I hesitate to get it. A spring system that would allow the blade to collapse a bit into the hilt while giving a real nasty taser effect to incompacitate the reciever would be wonderfull. That would be the next step in realism.

JenniM said:
In full blade mode, a blade has numerous applications ranging from deterrent strikes with shallow cuts to fingers, hands and arms to repel your attacker, and at crisis point you can simply progress to deeper slashing and thrusting when you want to incapacitate or the last resort of deadly force is necessary.

My God! :xtrmshock Have you bothered to try to run that line of thinking past a lawyer specializing in the use of deadly weapons?

You need to. Try reading nonnonsenseselfdefense.com for a start and follow the links to the Massaad Ayoob stuff as well as all the stuff on real street combat and the use of knives.

Short version- almost everywhere you are only allowed to pull a deadly weapon like a knife when you feel your life is in such danger that you need to kill the other guy. If you use it on the other guy and do not try to kill him, then you are obviously not that scared for your life. That is the way the law looks at things. Talk to a lawyer before you ever try what you say above in a real situation. If you ever use a weapon and say you were trying to cut him but were not trying to kill him you might be spending several years behind bars and shanked to death anyways.

Seriously, talk to a lawyer.
 

JenniM

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Don Roley said:
My God! :xtrmshock Have you bothered to try to run that line of thinking past a lawyer specializing in the use of deadly weapons?

You need to. Try reading nonnonsenseselfdefense.com for a start and follow the links to the Massaad Ayoob stuff as well as all the stuff on real street combat and the use of knives.

Short version- almost everywhere you are only allowed to pull a deadly weapon like a knife when you feel your life is in such danger that you need to kill the other guy. If you use it on the other guy and do not try to kill him, then you are obviously not that scared for your life. That is the way the law looks at things. Talk to a lawyer before you ever try what you say above in a real situation. If you ever use a weapon and say you were trying to cut him but were not trying to kill him you might be spending several years behind bars and shanked to death anyways.

Seriously, talk to a lawyer.


Whoaahhh there!! Calm down!! - I was simply highlighting the reality and versatility of the blade, albeit it from my limited time spent training in this area over a couple of years. Unfortunately its not a "way of thinking" - unsavoury as it may be, its a fact! I am fully aware of the law here in the UK with regard to weapons and I might add abide by them. Obviously I am not advocating the use of the blade in this way outside of the realms of the law - but if it was mine/my family's life at stake against that of an assailant - you're damn right I would do whatever it took, what's the point otherwise? - "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"!!:asian:
 

Don Roley

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JenniM said:
Obviously I am not advocating the use of the blade in this way outside of the realms of the law - but if it was mine/my family's life at stake against that of an assailant - you're damn right I would do whatever it took, what's the point otherwise? - "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"!!:asian:

Oh, you just hit one of my big nerves in relation to self defense.

Have you ever had to face a jury? Do you even have a lawyer on retainer? I do.

Instead of the whole 'better to be judged' line, how about this.

"Better to leave your family penniless and alone because you lost everything to lawyer fees and judgements against you and died of AIDS after being gang raped in the prison shower than certain death now."

Did you look at nononsenseselfdefense.com like I reccomended? Did you take Masaad Ayoob coure like they recommend? If not, you are dealing with stuff you have no knowledge about.

I said to talk to a lawyer. Do it. Don't try to convince me that you are in the right because I know that you are going to get yourself in trouble with your attitude. Go get a lawyer, put him on retainer and have a good talk. Or take the chance that your actions may needlessly leave your family poor and without you take take care of them.

Trust me on this. Trust your lawyer on this.
 

JenniM

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Don Roley said:
Oh, you just hit one of my big nerves in relation to self defense.

Have you ever had to face a jury? Do you even have a lawyer on retainer? I do.

Instead of the whole 'better to be judged' line, how about this.

"Better to leave your family penniless and alone because you lost everything to lawyer fees and judgements against you and died of AIDS after being gang raped in the prison shower than certain death now."

Did you look at nononsenseselfdefense.com like I reccomended? Did you take Masaad Ayoob coure like they recommend? If not, you are dealing with stuff you have no knowledge about.

I said to talk to a lawyer. Do it. Don't try to convince me that you are in the right because I know that you are going to get yourself in trouble with your attitude. Go get a lawyer, put him on retainer and have a good talk. Or take the chance that your actions may needlessly leave your family poor and without you take take care of them.

Trust me on this. Trust your lawyer on this.

Sir! ....same planet, different worlds!!! I have been studying martial arts for 25 years and have never needed a lawyer yet so I guess my attitude's not all that bad huh? You have taken my original post completely out of context and seem to be looking to engage in conflict (maybe this is why you have a lawyer on retainer?) - therefore may I respectfully suggest that we agree to disagree and move on!:asian: On another note I see from your profile that you in Japan, which part? as as crazy as it sounds we actually have a club in Sendai!!
 

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