Fighting Styles” or “Martial Brands”? (from Kung Fu Tea)

[Argus]

Please forgive me, I had ey surgery this morning and basically I am doing this wth one eye and I am on a Mac so proper quotes is not easy so I am not using it

Quote from Argus



Quote from Chris

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Don't claim to know the first thing to Koryu but I do know about CMA and there are multiple style that do not change much from Generation to generation and for many of those that do the underlying principles remain the which is why you have various style of taijiquan, xingyiquan, baguazhang, wing chun, changquan, etc. and it is now to much of a pain to keep typing so that is all for now

Yeah, I think maybe I over exaggerated when I say they change "a lot" - though, that is the case sometimes.

Do you find some arts to be particularly more consistent than others? My knowledge is somewhat limited to WC.

In any case, I hope your eye heals up soon, Xue. Take it easy!

 

[Chris Parker]

Thanks Chris. Very insightful. I think I'll take you up on that Koryu thread.

Not a problem.

I would like to touch on one point though, as it's related to the topic:

CMA are a bit of a strange animal in this case, and it's one of the reasons why lineage is such a big deal. CMA do not usually change drastically enough with each generation to warrant being called a different martial art. Usually the changes are subtle, and sometimes they are less so, but the art does remain recognizable and maintains the same core principles and techniques. Wing Chun, for example, has a long history of innovation. Leung Jan is said to have removed the side-on stances, and placed a greater emphasis on facing, which is where we get our inherent "squareness." Chan Wah Shun made notable changes as well, reversing and rearranging the wooden dummy form so that it followed a more logical order. Yip Man simplified many aspects of the forms, and gave some of the techniques more descriptive names. Wong Shun Leung competed in challenge matches, and further refined his forms, in addition to influencing the forms of others; the reason that we have gan-sau in our first form, for example, is the result of one of WSL's early beimo experiences. There is a theme of constant tweaking and refinement in TCMA. Other teachers, such as Tsui Sheung Tin, Lok Yiu, Yip Chun, and Yip Ching, all made minor changes to their forms as well. Their forms are very much still recognizable, but you can see where and how their approach differs.

I wouldn't say that it's completely foreign to Japanese Martial Arts, though. Having recently started Aikido, I came across Nishio Shouji. His Aikido is very innovative, and a good example of the kind of thing you see in CMA.

What you're describing there leads to new branches, rather than new arts completely… as you'd expect, Japanese arts are filled with both (a new branch is often referred to as a "ha" 派, for the record). Little changes aren't unusual from generation to generation… or even between teachers of the same generation… even in what might be thought of as the most "incorruptible" of systems…

Please forgive me, I had ey surgery this morning and basically I am doing this wth one eye and I am on a Mac so proper quotes is not easy so I am not using it

Don't claim to know the first thing to Koryu but I do know about CMA and there are multiple style that do not change much from Generation to generation and for many of those that do the underlying principles remain the which is why you have various style of taijiquan, xingyiquan, baguazhang, wing chun, changquan, etc. and it is now to much of a pain to keep typing so that is all for now

Cool, same thing as above, Xue. But really, I only put this here to say I hope you recover from your surgery well and quickly… and, if you're using a Mac and want to copy and paste, it's the "command+C/command+V" keys, rather than "control+C"… not too different…

 

[Xue Sheng]

Read the article

 

[Elbowgrease]

Read it, right after I wrote that post. Then I realized nothing I had written had anything to do with the article. I was a little out of it.
Good read. Pretty interesting stuff.