Fatal Cross

[Ceicei]

What are your insights of the technique, Fatal Cross? What do you like/dislike about it and would you have wanted to adjust or change some movements make this technique more effective? Personally, I like this technique a lot. I would like your opinions please.

- Ceicei

 

[Ceicei]

For those who don't know, the technique goes like this (as written on Mr. Billing's Kenpo techniques list on his website):

1. FATAL CROSS (two-hand attempted low grab or push)
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]1. While standing naturally and with opponent attempting to grab or push, gauge range as you drop into a right cat stance, executing left and right outward double crane parries, clearing hands (like "Hooking Wings") and then step forward right to a right neutral bow stance as you strike the opponent's floating ribs with double middle-knuckle fists, that cause him to bend down.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]2. Utilizing borrow force, cross your hands at the wrist and execute scissoring double backknuckle strikes to the throat or temple.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]3. With your wrists still crossed, follow with double 2 finger eye pokes to his (In this case your right and is on the top to prepare for moves that are to follow).[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]4. With your hands still crossed drop them down to check his shoulders, step through with a left knee kick to his groin, followed by a right step through knee kick to his solar-plexus, plant down right.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]5. Grab the opponent's left shoulder with your left hand and turn him around clockwise as your right hand grabs and assists in the process by holding his chin, step back right (after he has stopped turning) and pull your opponent back into a right knee to the spine, plant down and then left knee up to his kidney.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]6. With your left still in the air deliver a left side thrust kick to the back of the right knee of the opponent.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]7. Left front crossover and double cover out to 6:00.[/size][/font]

 

[dubljay]

I just learned fatal cross not too long ago, and I happen to like it quite a bit. Then again I am partial to any technique with lots of knee strikes in them like Menacing Twirl.

- Josh -

 

[jfarnsworth]

Fatal cross has a little too much kneeing going on for me. The whole step through thing & the 4 knee strikes :idunno: (I know it's another way to show knee application with targets) I just don't like it. How about for a change after the back knuckle strikes drop the palm heels on the clavicals (or cross choke if you will) execute a left knee to the groin to drop the attack hips backward, left leg moves to the 4:30 line as you deliver a right inward elbow strike to the jaw hinge then cover out towards 4:30. I kinda like this variation much better. On the other hand you must still practice the "as written" version. :asian:

 

[dubljay]

Well thats about as an opposite pair of responses as you can get.

Like I've said already I like knee strikes. Knees an extremely powerful weapons and is very effective for beginners beacuse it's difficult to injure yourself when using it, unlike a front kick where some beginners don't use the ball of their foot and break their toes.

I like Fatal Cross for more than just the knee strikes, this is one of those techniques that is easy to get into the flow of (for me anyway). The strikes and timing just feel natural to me.

-Josh-

 

[jfarnsworth]

I should have given the credit of the variation to Mr. Planas as I didn't come up with that on my own. As I stated the variation is much better than trying to knee through someone and then twist them around. Short, sweet, and to the point.

 

[dubljay]

True, the shorter and simple techniques feel like they would be the most effective. Not only that, but a 100 lb person is not going to be able to manhandle a 200 or even 150 lb person all that well... you have to go with what works for you... and on your opponent.

-Josh-

 

[kenpo2dabone]

I do not care for crossing my arms up to do the double back knuckles and double finger pokes or flicks. Crossing your hands up like that allows both of your hands to be trapped or chaecked by only one of your attackers. If I were doing this technique in the street I would do a single back-knuckle and move onto the knee strikes. If I really wanted to poke the eye I would alternate from the back-knuckle to the eyepoke, for instance right back-knucle then left eye poke. In the UKF we train very hard to keep our hands in positions so that "two" of our weapons could never be checked by "one" of our attackers.

Salute,

Mike Miller UKF

 

[Michael Billings]

I like the cross-choke, if not taught earlier, here is a good technique to apply it. I also like the neck break insert or "hidden" move, neither of which is contingent on clothing, but executed by just establishing fulcrums. The turn around (inserted elbow to assist) could also be a sheilding move against multiple attackers.

-Michael

 

[dubljay]

I like the cross-choke, if not taught earlier, here is a good technique to apply it. I also like the neck break insert or "hidden" move, neither of which is contingent on clothing, but executed by just establishing fulcrums. The turn around (inserted elbow to assist) could also be a sheilding move against multiple attackers.

-Michael

Damn I feel kinda slow now... never thought to apply a cross-choke here, hmm thats pretty slick.


:asian:

 

[pete]

I like the cross-choke, if not taught earlier, here is a good technique to apply it. I also like the neck break insert or "hidden" move, neither of which is contingent on clothing, but executed by just establishing fulcrums. -Michael Billings

I learned it similarly, not sure of where the hidden move is?? i was taught to grab onto the shoulders (assuming it is clothing) while delivering the first set of knee strikes. then, as the right foot lands back, you push with the right arm and pull with your left... this leaves your right forearm across the attackers throat. maintaining a grip on the shoulder clothing, you'd roll your right arm clockwise tightening up against his throat.

is this hidden? i'm curious how you apply the fulcrum without dependency on clothing... do you just bend you right hand over the shoulder and press the side of your pinky into his back? this stuff intrigues me!

well... back to fatal cross... i was then taught to push with the left and retract the right hand as a claw across the face, now facing his back attack the trapezius with 2 downward heel palms, grab the shoulders again and knee right, left and knife kick and cross out...

we do something similar with that choke hold from the left side with Piercing Lance, before dropping the extended right elbow over your knee.

again, not sure where the hidden moves begin and the technique by the book leaves off...

thanks,
pete

 

[Michael Billings]

I was TEASING guys ... none of it is "hidden", it is just the application taught. Cross choke, anchors are over the shoulder, but not the pinkies, there are actually some great pressure points to dig in on here. Anchor, settle, leave the right hand anchored on them and the inward elbow changes angles a bit into a diagonal weapon to turn the head, as you assist with the left. The break is when you just maintain the claw and anchor your right forarm across thier right shoulder (their back is now toward you), careful ... or they go "pop". This puts the arch in their back and opens up organs for knees instead of just skeletal targets.

This is a sweet technique, all I really worry about is the timing of the scissoring back knuckles getting there to prevent the head butt I create with my uppercuts, it is a quarter or half beat timing thing, then indexing (tracking to the eyes) is a gimme .... except it preconfigures the hands for the strikes down onto or into, either the traps or delts, or pressure point inside the neck, before we go to the cross-choke.

What-if, what-if, what-if. None of this is new, but been around at least decades, if not longer. It is in who teaches it how, then how far do you explore it after learning it?

It all just keeps getting better and better to me.

-Michael

 

[dubljay]

Nothing is ever hidden... well execpt to me, but thats because I'm blind when it comes try seeing applications like that. I am working really hard on getting past the "mechanical stage", trying to be more spontanious.... but that is another topic entirely.

 

[sumdumguy]

I personally like to convert the "cross choke" spin around to a neck brake and drop to the ground... hehe
:asian: