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lifewise
Guest
I would appreciate other's definitions of "fair play" and give examples of the fair play you have seen.
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Shinzu
Guest
good question, hard answer. to me fair play would be something everyone should develop.
not being bias toward better students rather than those who pick up a little slower.
giving everyone a chance to reach their goals.
not promoting students who try their best, and promoting those who don't.
learning to take a hit as well as you can dish it out, and not get upset.
keeping in mind that higher ranks can always learn somethings from lower ranks.
these are just some examples of fair play that i have been involved with.
not being bias toward better students rather than those who pick up a little slower.
giving everyone a chance to reach their goals.
not promoting students who try their best, and promoting those who don't.
learning to take a hit as well as you can dish it out, and not get upset.
keeping in mind that higher ranks can always learn somethings from lower ranks.
these are just some examples of fair play that i have been involved with.
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lifewise
Guest
Great!
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sweeper
Guest
I would say that deppends on the situation, if you are competing in a sport or if you are practicing than I would say fair play is kind of like sportsmanship.
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fissure
Guest
That should be carved into the wall in every do- jo/jang!:EG:
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Eraser
Guest
Wouldn't that be unfair play???
But everything else.. i fully agree on!!!
Fair play at tournaments:
As an instructor, bow out as scorekeeper, timekeeper, or judge if your student is competing in your ring. Leave no question as to the impartiality of the results. Most instructors, although they try to be fair, either end up going harder (most of the time) or easier on their own students.
As a parent or competitor, if a judge or arbitrator rules against you, live with it, accept it, and don't make a fuss. Its just a tournament. There will be others.
As a parent or instructor, don't lie about your child or student's age or rank to place them in an easier division. Let them earn their trophy and don't cheat other children out of theirs.
As a promoter or coordinator, try not to combine brown and black belt divisions. At that rank, the competitors usually won't object, but there's a huge skill difference between brown belt rank, especially someone who JUST got their brown, and black belt rank, and most of the time the brown belts get slaughtered. (I once saw a tournament that combined six adult brown belts with one fourth degree black belt. yep, guess who won...)
Fair play in class:
Everyone is there to learn. Respect that. Don't interfere with other's learning. If you don't want to be there, leave or sit down. Don't interfere with class because of a bad attitude.
If you're fighting someone who isn't as good at it as you... don't beat them up. Help them up. Fight them at just above their level so they can get better at it.
If someone asks you to show them something they don't know, teach it to them. With rank comes responsibility, and if you're wearing a higher rank than they are, you have knowledge to share. (depends on your studio policy, of course...where I train, high ranks are required to help out if asked. at some places, only the instructor is allowed to teach stuff)
Respect everyone in the studio, not just the black belts. Being an orange belt doesn't mean you can order the white belts around. If you brag about something, be prepared to back it up. Remember, a closed mouth gathers no feet.
Observe proper personal hygiene. BO is not an acceptable martial arts weapon.
Just my $0.02
Nightingale
As an instructor, bow out as scorekeeper, timekeeper, or judge if your student is competing in your ring. Leave no question as to the impartiality of the results. Most instructors, although they try to be fair, either end up going harder (most of the time) or easier on their own students.
As a parent or competitor, if a judge or arbitrator rules against you, live with it, accept it, and don't make a fuss. Its just a tournament. There will be others.
As a parent or instructor, don't lie about your child or student's age or rank to place them in an easier division. Let them earn their trophy and don't cheat other children out of theirs.
As a promoter or coordinator, try not to combine brown and black belt divisions. At that rank, the competitors usually won't object, but there's a huge skill difference between brown belt rank, especially someone who JUST got their brown, and black belt rank, and most of the time the brown belts get slaughtered. (I once saw a tournament that combined six adult brown belts with one fourth degree black belt. yep, guess who won...)
Fair play in class:
Everyone is there to learn. Respect that. Don't interfere with other's learning. If you don't want to be there, leave or sit down. Don't interfere with class because of a bad attitude.
If you're fighting someone who isn't as good at it as you... don't beat them up. Help them up. Fight them at just above their level so they can get better at it.
If someone asks you to show them something they don't know, teach it to them. With rank comes responsibility, and if you're wearing a higher rank than they are, you have knowledge to share. (depends on your studio policy, of course...where I train, high ranks are required to help out if asked. at some places, only the instructor is allowed to teach stuff)
Respect everyone in the studio, not just the black belts. Being an orange belt doesn't mean you can order the white belts around. If you brag about something, be prepared to back it up. Remember, a closed mouth gathers no feet.
Observe proper personal hygiene. BO is not an acceptable martial arts weapon.
Just my $0.02
Nightingale
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
Amen, Night! I was going to quote you and give you my 0.2 (agree with you), but all of what you said, I agree with. Now I just wish 2 or 3 students in my dojang would read your post (for the "fair play in class" thing). Helping out is a big one. And if you don't wanna be there and don't try, why bother showing up. You ruin it for everyone else that is serious about training.
My big pet peeve right now (in class) is that I was told not to "ask a higher rank for help" (see my "Can't ask for help" thread). If I can't ask a higher rank for help, who do I ask?????
My big pet peeve right now (in class) is that I was told not to "ask a higher rank for help" (see my "Can't ask for help" thread). If I can't ask a higher rank for help, who do I ask?????
Looking at the posts made so far I think Eraser is right about Shinzu's "not promoting students who try their best, and promoting those who don't"; I think that was said backwards or something, but we know what was meant. nightingale8472 made a nice list of points to remember, as did Shinzu. Both lists sound pretty reasonable to me. And sweeper made it simple by equating fair play to good sportsmanship; I think that's a fair comparison.
I agree with karatekid1975 about the helping/working if you're going to show up. I've see a few different things happen in the classes I take. Sometimes people who are there when class starts don't practice with everyone else. Sometimes people show up late and miss the beginning of class. In both cases since we start with stamina training, basic stances and things, they're missing/skipping that while everyone else is working at it. I've seen people now and then show up just before our teacher normally arrives (he normally lets us do stamina training on our own, so he comes to class a bit later than we do) to just get the new material, but skip all the harder parts of the workout. In all these cases it can have a negative effect on the class as a whole. Our teacher has talked about this before, but I guess it hasn't quite gotten through to everyone, otherwise they wouldn't continue doing this sort of thing. BTW, if people come late for a reason, they had an evening class or something, that's fine. I'm complaining about the ones who come late and don't have a good reason.
As far as asking people for help goes, if you can't ask higher ranked students, I guess you have to ask the instructor. I'm not sure there is another option. Ask lower ranked students for help? They could help with some things they know, I imagine, but not stuff they don't know. I suppose the teacher has a reason for this policy. Why not ask and find out what it is? I know our teacher doesn't want us teaching people things if he hasn't OK'ed it first. If they're in the same group as we are, learning the same things, then it's OK. But if they're not, we're not supposed to teach them. Perhaps you teacher, karatekid1975, is working on a similar premise? I don't really know, just a guess.
I agree with karatekid1975 about the helping/working if you're going to show up. I've see a few different things happen in the classes I take. Sometimes people who are there when class starts don't practice with everyone else. Sometimes people show up late and miss the beginning of class. In both cases since we start with stamina training, basic stances and things, they're missing/skipping that while everyone else is working at it. I've seen people now and then show up just before our teacher normally arrives (he normally lets us do stamina training on our own, so he comes to class a bit later than we do) to just get the new material, but skip all the harder parts of the workout. In all these cases it can have a negative effect on the class as a whole. Our teacher has talked about this before, but I guess it hasn't quite gotten through to everyone, otherwise they wouldn't continue doing this sort of thing. BTW, if people come late for a reason, they had an evening class or something, that's fine. I'm complaining about the ones who come late and don't have a good reason.
As far as asking people for help goes, if you can't ask higher ranked students, I guess you have to ask the instructor. I'm not sure there is another option. Ask lower ranked students for help? They could help with some things they know, I imagine, but not stuff they don't know. I suppose the teacher has a reason for this policy. Why not ask and find out what it is? I know our teacher doesn't want us teaching people things if he hasn't OK'ed it first. If they're in the same group as we are, learning the same things, then it's OK. But if they're not, we're not supposed to teach them. Perhaps you teacher, karatekid1975, is working on a similar premise? I don't really know, just a guess.
my instructor's cure for lateness is 50 pushups before you can join the class. We're not late very often.
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lifewise
Guest
Thanks Nightingale - your post is extremely useful to me (research).
:asian:
:asian:
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Wertle
Guest
lifewise--what is all your research for? You have my curiousity piqued.
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lifewise
Guest
You are indeed a curious person Wertle
But since you asked, I am doing some writing and the questions I posed on here regarding Fair Play and The Reasons Why may help me see things from another's perspective.
But since you asked, I am doing some writing and the questions I posed on here regarding Fair Play and The Reasons Why may help me see things from another's perspective.
glad to be of service, friend. can I see your paper when you're done with it? you've got me curious also. nightingale8472@hotmail.com
-n-
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Wertle
Guest
Yes yes, i want to see it when it's finished also! wertle1@aol.com
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Shinzu
Guest
sorry if that was misunderstood.
what i meant was when teacher's dont promote those who truly deserve it, and promote those who really could care less and don't give it their all.
unfortunately i have been one of those students who was passed by in my earlier years. while other higher ranks, in the teachers words, "should not have passed", passed anyway.
what i meant was when teacher's dont promote those who truly deserve it, and promote those who really could care less and don't give it their all.
unfortunately i have been one of those students who was passed by in my earlier years. while other higher ranks, in the teachers words, "should not have passed", passed anyway.
How about posting it here if it's not too long so everyone who's interested can see it? If it is kind of long, perhaps you can put it on a web site and give us a link to it or post a summary of your findings? BTW, this is meant for lifewise who is the one doing the writing.
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lifewise
Guest
Thanks for the interested everyone, and I will see what I can do to post all or part of it on here when it is done.
It may take awhile though folks, I need more replies to the question and if any of you have gone to the Women's Self Defense and read the thread ... How do we find the time - I will know that I am one of those people who suffer from too many things to do and not enough hours in the day!
and I will see what I can do to post all or part of it on here when it is done. It may take awhile though folks, I need more replies to the question and if any of you have gone to the Women's Self Defense and read the thread ... How do we find the time - I will know that I am one of those people who suffer from too many things to do and not enough hours in the day!
