Exits & Moderation: Was :Zach Whitson Seminar

[arnisador]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
What a waste, I for one am sad to see them go. I can tell you I certainly won't be posting here near as much if at all the way things are going.

I'm sorry to hear that. I felt it appropriate to accede to their requests--would you have had me ignore them? It seemed a serious request, and as Kirk has made such a request before I know he understands what it entails.

Account closure is reversible.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by cdhall
God help me if we were doing techniques and I hit them too hard on with an insert. What would they do then? Explode at me?

Brian got really mad at me about this analogy and contacted me.

So I want to reiterate that it was an analogy and I didn't mean it literally.

My only issue with him and Kirk about this thread is the reason they quit and the fact that they quit. I don't have any Kenpo experience with Brian but he is Sibok's student so I imagine he is a better fighter than I am and maybe better all around. I don't have enough experience working with Kirk to say anything about his Kenpo either so I am not commenting on their real-life Martial Arts ability, only the way they acted in this thread.

I don't want to drag this on so I won't say anything else except that I like them both and I am sorry they blew up and quit like they did.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by arnisador
I'm sorry to hear that. I felt it appropriate to accede to their requests--would you have had me ignore them? It seemed a serious request, and as Kirk has made such a request before I know he understands what it entails.

Account closure is reversible.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

No, you did what they asked and I can respect you for that. Me, I just feel things have gotten way off course in Kenpo and I do my part to keep it on path. I'll let all the cross-training junkies who obviously know more than I take over the forum now and I'll just lurk in the background.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Michael Billings]

Keep on Keepin' on. I may not always agree with you, but at least we play in the same ball park. Running away or shutting off your account, well, I understand and respect their decision ... I just wish they hadn't of opted for that out.

Que Sara

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Keep on Keepin' on. I may not always agree with you, but at least we play in the same ball park. Running away or shutting off your account, well, I understand and respect their decision ... I just wish they hadn't of opted for that out.

Que Sara

If it wasn't for Kirk's outrageous outbursts this board would be ever so boring and now he's gone. I don't agree with Kirk 100% of the time either but I do know him on more personal level via phone conversations and his enthusiasm is contagious, and I'll back him in most any endeavor he chooses. The same goes for Brian with whom I have a more personal involvement with as we've met in person and have had hands on.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[don bohrer]

I enjoy the good, the bad, and the ugly from time to time. However I am growing concerned over members quitting like this. Perhaps threads should be (automatically) split when they become personal or the banter between a few becomes ill-natured. People could jump over to the newly split thread or just stay put. Being off topic is ok.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mod Note:

Thread split from original seminar notice.

 

[don bohrer]

So who's our spy for this sem? San Antonio is around the corner from me, but I'm working and won't be able to make it.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Don,
you're not the only one concerned. Part of the problem is we are damned either way. If a mod splits a thread and those involved think it wasn't warrented, we get flak. If we don't and it drifts and we do nothing, we get flak. If we do anything, it often seems like we get flak.

We split the kenpo area into 2 sections to help us keep things running smooth. What we've ended up with is one area with serious technical stuff and a small amount of drift, and another area that tends to degenerate within a few posts into idle chitchat n bs. We have a second 'locker room'. The reason for having the Locker Room forum was so that chit-chat had someplace to go. (as well as the non-MA stuff).

Lets look at the original thread (before splitting) a moment...I can delete -every- post in it except the original message and not have lost -anything- of value. This threads advertizing a seminar by one of the hotter rising stars in kenpo, and out of all these posts, only -1- actually has any substance? Does no one see a problem here? 1 out of 36 posts is actually on topic? (I'll give ya the couple bumps, but that still leaves 30 out of 36 as off topic.)

When threads start to be more chitchat than substance, this board stops being 'MartialTalk' and starts being 'Talk'. Thats not quite what I had in mind.

Ideally, when a thread starts to drift, we hope that folks will start the new thread themselves and put up a 'please see here to continue this sidebar' type message.

Regarding this thread again, I do not see any problem with a member (who in this case happens to also be a mod on a different forum) saying "hey, lets focus on the seminar here". I wish more members would take the initative and nudge drifting threads back on topic.

I do however see a problem where 2 individuals for whatever reason decide to quit. I don't know the full details, but if they quit over something as small as this, then there was something else going on that is not apparent to most of us.

If its because they disaprove of our selection of moderators for this area, then there are more positive ways to indicate such.

Both Seig and Mr. Billings were approached by us after carefully considering many things. The fact that they are long time members here, are both high ranked kenpoists, have been positive supporters of this forum and had already been doing some of what we want our moderators to do, all were taken into consideration. Why didn't we take a vote on who should be a mod? Simple. This isn't a popularity contest. Being a mod isn't a party, its a thankless, stressful, pain in the *** job. Burn out is common. Neither of them asked for the job, we asked them.

Our goal is to make this the best forum for kenpo on the net. In order to do so, we need to grow. This is part of the process. I know some folks will leave. Others will come and find a home here. That is a normal part of forum lifecycles. Those that leave always leave their mark and most will be missed.

Peace.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Clyde: while we disagree on the cross-training thing, I have the utmost respect for your Kenpo knowledge and your contributions here. The moderators have thoughtfully segretated the cross-training and groundfighting topics into separate threads so that we subversives should no longer hijack well-focused Kenpo threads. I do hope that you continue to post Kenpo information here as you have a lot of valuable stuff to contribute that I want to read.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Clyde: while we disagree on the cross-training thing, I have the utmost respect for your Kenpo knowledge and your contributions here. The moderators have thoughtfully segretated the cross-training and groundfighting topics into separate threads so that we subversives should no longer hijack well-focused Kenpo threads. I do hope that you continue to post Kenpo information here as you have a lot of valuable stuff to contribute that I want to read.

Thanks for the compliment but no, I'm just gonna stay out of it. If you'd like info, feel free to PM me, I don't have you on ignore.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Sigung86]

Seems like y'all are taking the members ability to use the "F" word away. I think that's what Clyde is getting at... That's why I don't post here too much, anymore. If the users want to use the "F" word it should be up to them.

After all... There's nothing wrong with a little Fun.

Life is too damned important to take as seriously as some of you seem to take yourselves. Seems that if some of you held your noses that high in a shower, you'd drown rather quickly.

And not saying who all was involved, but senior Kenpoists calling other junior Kenpoists on the phone and chewing them out for wrongs, either real or percieved, is pretty chump. Pomposity, superciliousness and condescension don't play well in real life. And I'm curious as to who you think you are to be taking those kinds of actions when you're breath probably smells bad when you first wake up in the morning?

Anybody wanna call me and chew me out? Come ahead on.

Being an owner/Admin on my own site, not Kenpo related Thank God, A word on Moderators. If you are picking moderators based on their ability to do a tireless, thankless job, ability to withstand burnout and all the other negative connotations, then you need to rethink how you want your moderating done, or how you're running your site. Moderating is done best by example and leadership, and not hand slapping or snide remarks. Interestingly, a couple of the moderators here used to be the very folks that did a lot of the thread hijacking and had a lot of the fun. Just so happens that the moderators on my forum love their "jobs". Why? Because it isn't a job. It is an opportunity to meld what they know with experience and people handling. An opportunity to lead, to recognize and be recognized. An opportunity to make their virtual community a better place for their having been there. Moderators who are overlords are, essentially, whack.

You can ban me if you like... That's ok. If you send me any messages chastising me for stating an opinion, you're wasting your breath. If you will delete this post, I won't be surprised.
I figure that if you'll let Old Fat whine, beat people and carry on then I ought to be safe. You call me and try to chew on me, like some folks got chewed on and you'll get at least one ear full and told where your phone will probably fit you best, and how to put it there.

These kinds of activities are why a lot of the seniors won't be bothered posting on these forums. Uneven handed moderating, self righteousness, quickness to jump to conclusions, speedy conviction on flimsy evidence ... Mob mentality ... People who should know better but seem bent on spending their time telling other folks how to live and behave.... The list goes on.

If you have people leaving in large numbers, which apparently you do, then that is a "stunning' indictment on the methods you are using and not necessarily the people leaving. Perhaps, rather than pooh-pooh the folks leaving, you ought to reconsider your own methods and concepts.

As thou wilt.

Dan Farmer
6th Dan (RokuDan) ... Hey... That kind of makes me a Junior -senior like Clyde and Dennis.
Tracy International

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Hey! I've been called a whiner before but I hope nobody thinks I've been personally trying to beat on them!

I think if you don't like someone on the forum, or don't like a thread, you just ignore/skip. There is still lots of good stuff here.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Dan, I agree with a fair amount of what you wrote, but in regards to some of it, I have to wonder if we are reading the same board here?

When have we banned people for stating their opinion?

When have we emailed chastisments for stating opinions?

When have we called people to rip em a new one?

When have we deleted differing opinions?


All we want is for threads to stay a bit more on topic, so folks can find what they want. Using this threads origin, while the former members banter was friendly, it was most definately off topic. If I was loking for information on Zachs seminars, I'm not sure the wine list would be appropriate information. Thats my opinion.

Uneven handed moderating, self righteousness, quickness to jump to conclusions, speedy conviction on flimsy evidence ... Mob mentality

Why is it that everytime we try to balance the moderation, the "uneven" card is brought out? Moderation in the Kenpo area -has- been uneven due to us not having the needed balance in the mod staff. We've balanced the staff, and now are balancing the forum moderation. The rest, I have to ask Where?

Dan, with all due respect, are you sure this is aimed at MT and not one of the copycat boards whose only rule is 'dont mod like MT but look like em as much as possible?'

We have language filters due to the fact we have kids (some as young as 10) on here. FUN is not one of the included ones.

My guess is that folks would prefer it if we just let em say anything, whereever, so that everything was a big unfocused mess. Oh and then whine "Wheres the mods?" after it of course gets out of hand. Well, I'm sorry. Thats not quite our goal here.

I repeat, if folks just want to shoot-the-bull and chat about which bar they are hitting tonite, or why thy sky is blue, they should do it in the areas that are specifically set aside for such.

Those are:
The Locker Room
THe Chat Room

Ya know, we had folks griping when we split the kenpo area yet its worked out well. This isn't that major of a 'change'. Its a matter of folks realizing "Hey, we're in the 'Broken Rod' thread. Maybe we should move over to the gun forum to continue discussing that new 45 I bought." and when they don't a mod spliting the thread, and pointing folks at the right spot to look for it.

To be honest, people act like we've flipped everything totally upsidedown. The changes are minimal.

Give it time.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Mr. Farmer makes a number of excellent points. I certainly agree that mods. should lead by example rather than chastise--we discuss that in the mod. forum all the time. We want to nudge, steer, nourish discussion, seed the fora with intertesting topics, etc. What we found was that the staff we had was putting out fires full-time and that we needed more help to do it right.

This place was never meant to be all things to all people. We have not had a large exodus, but postings do wax and wane. We want it to be a friendly place for discussing the martial arts. On USENET they now say that rec.martial-arts isn't for discussing the martial arts but rather for discussions by martial artists, on whatever topic interests them (often politics), to justify the lack of topicality. We're here for discussion of the martial arts--but we certainly need to allow some banter. As others have pointed out, it serves a purpose in developing camaraderie.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Michael Billings]

My opinion:

Moderating is done best by example and leadership, and not hand slapping or snide remarks.

I agree with you 100%. The rest, I have mixed reactions to. I am learning how to be a mod, so far I have not spanked anyone's hand. Steering something is different from "restricting". While in theory, I believe in free speech (I might not like what you say ... but will defend to the death your right to say it), I do keep in mind the kiddos as far as language or adult content stuff.

I guess I just don't see that much bad stuff that everyone is getting so riled up about. I think everyone should stick to their guns and let's hash it out. I really prefer this forum and want it to stay, generally, the way it has been in the past. There are a few exceptions ... but none that I would take it upon myself to "restrict". Guidence is a good word, and that does not have to be done in public on the forum .... UNLESS IT DOES!

The phone thing????? What is up with that? Kirk is a nice, bright, opinionated guy who I do know in-person, and like. So I am not sure what the negativity is about. We all come across different at the keyboard than we do in person. None of this is insurmountable nor does it have to turn nasty.

Let's just decide that we don't want it to be that, and work toward it. Heck, we don't have to all get along ... but "if you would not say it in person, it probably don't need to be said", is my stand on all forum communications in any forum.

Who was it who posted the immortal words .... PLAY NICE

-MB

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Sigung86
Dan Farmer. Hey... That kind of makes me a Junior -senior like Clyde and Dennis.

How dare you mention my name!

 

[Kalicombat]

I agree with Mr. Farmers points. This is a forum on the internet. People have met here that would otherwise not have the opportunity, people have shared expertise, stories, laughs, and even ruffled a few feathers. All acceptable. As far as keeping this site "even" and keeping threads on track, who cares? People are gonna vent, let it alone. If a thread starts out talking about 5 swords, and somehow ends up on two people discussing their favorite bar to drink at, SO WHAT. This is all recreation. IT is not a living, no one is trying to come here to learn the secrets of the kenpo world. It should be fun, it should be recreational. Also, usually, if a thread takes off in a completely different direction, memebers will usuallysuggest a new thread or try to stear it back on course.
Kirk and Brian have both been informative, entertaining, and both have been an asset to this forum. Someone should email them, invite them back, and relax with the seriousness of all this.

Gary Catherman

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
How dare you mention my name!

I dare a great many things Dennis... What part upset you most?

You know my phone number if it is that large an issue.

Respectfully,

Dan

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Sigung86
What part upset you most?
You know my phone number if it is that large an issue.
Respectfully,Dan

I didn't say anything "upset" me at all...... much less "most".... LOL

:xtrmshock