Over all yours years in TKD have you ever felt like you was betrayed by the ORg, Students or even your Black Belts. If so what did they do and how was it handle?
Ever fell betrayed
- Thread starter terryl965
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Earl Weiss
Senior Master
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Yes, they felt like they had reasons why they were right and I was wrong. I told them that I wished them the best of luck on their chosen path and continued on mine.
Students were told that we chose different paths and they were welcome to go with whomever they wished. Public differences were not aired.
SahBumNimRush
Master of Arts
I've got a big one going on right now Terry.. . I am assuming that you are asking because you are dealing with something right now. I am submitting a formal grievance to our KJN about what has recently transpired. If you would like, I could PM you the letter.
Yes, by my former kjn.I worked for him for 10 years. He gave me a letter promising me 50% of the dojang and then a year later sold it, in full, to another kjn who fired me 1 year later. I did not take him to court...probably should have. New teacher ran it to the ground.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #5
Please do
I know a couple of school owners who would probably say they have gotten the 'turn around and bend over' treatment.
That's 3 closed schools and one in legal dealings...
(I don't know specifics, so I can't speculate, only what was told to me, some more publicly than other)
That's 3 closed schools and one in legal dealings...
(I don't know specifics, so I can't speculate, only what was told to me, some more publicly than other)
DMcHenry
Blue Belt
Yes, several times by instructors/friends and a student.
yup.
first instructor. he was like a father to me. Now as far as I am concerned, he is dead. I have many great memories growing up and appreciate all that he did for me. I have no regrets about my past and I am very thankful he was a part of my life. But that was the past and like the past, it is over and gone. just like our relationship now. I have nothing to say to him ever again.
Funny though.... his son and I are closer than ever. I mean after all, he's like my little brother. has been for 25 years.
first instructor. he was like a father to me. Now as far as I am concerned, he is dead. I have many great memories growing up and appreciate all that he did for me. I have no regrets about my past and I am very thankful he was a part of my life. But that was the past and like the past, it is over and gone. just like our relationship now. I have nothing to say to him ever again.
Funny though.... his son and I are closer than ever. I mean after all, he's like my little brother. has been for 25 years.
I trained under a guy who ran a dojang with his wife. He claimed to be a bigwig in the ITF. He gave us phony ITF certs. He alleggedly (sp?) beat his wife. They've since divorced. She knew nothing of the phony certs. I trained with them for nearly 9 years.
I certainly feel betrayed, but I wasn't married to the guy.
I certainly feel betrayed, but I wasn't married to the guy.
Unfortunately when humans are involved the feeling that you have been betrayed by another when a relationship ends(personal or business) is common. In the Martial Arts World I believe it is magnified. Many Master's feel that their students owe them a Life-Time of loyalty with out questioning their authority the act of questioning can be seen a betrayal. If you leave and go to another school it is seen as a betrayal by the Student and the Master who accepts them. I had a Master Stand Up and say to the group your kids will be nothing with out me. We tested that theory and it has been proven to be wrong! When Ego's are involved feelings of betrayal happen very quickly.
troubleenuf
Blue Belt
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I can relate. I was with my instructor for 18 years. I was "appointed" as his "legal successor" only to have him sit down with me one day and tell me that he had been lying to me all those years and never intended to fulfill his promises to me. He had been using me to do his "dirty work" and as a fall guy with all the other instructors in the organization. I filled his pockets with over $160,000 in test fees and other fees and walked away. He is still filling his pockets from the other instructors in that organization.... but not mine.
The sad thing is... it wasn't about money or the school. It was personal.
But now I did have a similiar situation to you, only no where near as long as that, with another instructor i worked for.... he was a crook.
troubleenuf
Blue Belt
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You know... the thing is that after a few years away from him I discovered that I was better off without him. But at the time I was devastated. When I came home from my last meeting with him I felt like a part of me had been torn out. Funny how you can go from that to discover that there is a whole world out there and how very little that person actually gave you. In the end I feel like I came out ahead. He lost his best student. I discovered a better martial arts world.
Miles
Senior Master
No. I was "betrayed" by a school administrator who was piling my puzzle mats/wavemasters/shields/paddles, etc. into the school hallway while I was running a meeting on how to raise money for the church (school was run by the church).
Got the letter kicking my TKD program out of the school and giving me a short time to collect my equipment the day before my class would have met. I moved on and have never looked back after running the festival (that was what the fundraising meeting was about) two months later. Window closed, door opened!
I feel bad when I hear about students who have hateful or resentful attitudes towards their teachers or even their seniors. To this day, I personally try to maintain very good relationships with all my teachers that I have learned from over the years.
It should not be hard to keep a civil attitude to - well almost - all people you encounter.
Sadly there are also a lot of people out there who have the maturity of a toddler and the morals of an earth worm.
StudentCarl
3rd Black Belt
Loyalty to seniors is an expectation of martial culture, but I don't see much written that seniors, by nature of their greater experience and authority, have a greater responsibility than the junior to act with integrity and honor. All real leadership is by example that earns continued following. There will always be leaders who are self-centered and think others are present to meet their needs, instead of seeing that authority is a debt of trust from those who are led...sadly they are sometimes skilled liars and manipulators too.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #18
I agree with you puunui, I have always tried to respect all of my teachers. Even the one's that took money and never got the certs for people. TKD is about the respect and intrigrity we have for all people.
Gwai Lo Dan
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I went to a seminar with a guest Grand Master. He addressed me a few times as sir, and I was a lowly orange belt. At first I was surprised that he would show me that respect, then impressed. That was a good lesson.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
I think a lot of problems arise from students putting their seniors up on a pedestal. They think that because they have a high rank in a martial art that they must also be a "high rank" as a person, and therefore leave themselves open to be hurt. I have the utmost respect for my seniors IN the dojang. Outside of the dojang they are just normal everyday guys, with normal everyday problems and issues. I remember a karate instructor I had as a kid. I would see him up the front of the class, with the black belt on, barking instructions and could see and feel the unconditional respect everyone (including myself) had for this guy. It was as if he were super human both physically and mentally. Then I became good mates with his son and would hang out at his place and realised that in 'real life' he was a very angry man with many issues, he was an alcoholic, he was lazy and had questionable morals. It made me realise that despite his rank inside the dojo, outside of it he was just a mere mortal, yet if he told a student to jump they'd say "how high?"
