Ephedra Debate - Was Re: Creatine, to take or not to take

[Bob Hubbard]

I'll take mounting evidence, and my own personal experiences and that of people I've personally spoken to.

Something to consider, if you are in fact heavily into the body building routine, it may effect you differently due to your bodys metabolizing things differently. I've watched BB friends who chug those weight gainer shakes like I do tea. If I did that, I'd blow up from the high carbs and cals. They don't, as thier body needs the fuel.

You have to take all sides into consideration. Maybe it works for you, but for -most- people, and for the -average- person, its dangerous.

Believe what you want, do what you will.

But as you said, this is a health forum, and the evidence shows that this particular drug is not a good thing.

Many thought steriods were ok...now they are having liver and joint transplants.

Research into things changes things as evidence turns up and is reviewed.

As to a perfect spinning kick, well, that depends on which system, who the instructor was, what his lineage was, etc etc etc. Too Messy.

 

[cassidy]

whatever:rofl: I'm going back to the gym now while I pop my death pills,and watch everbody there who is taking them die. Then I am going to go find a shotokan master, Taekwondo master, Kuk sool won mater and the likes and tell them all that they don't do a kick right because I have EVIDENCE and PROOF because so and so said so.

 

[Angus]

Why are you so bitter that she/he disagrees? They have a right to disagree and so do you. It's a public discussion forum, it should be understood (and hoped for) that other viewpoints will arise, you know, for discussion? You have every right to disagree, but you don't mean to get mad and make bad analogies about it, just agree to disagree. You've presented your side and they've presented theirs. It's a good thing. No reason to get defensive.

I personally don't like ephedra or creatine. Not sure they're evil, I just don't like them. Seen people have too many ill effects from using them the prescribed way, so I think I'll pass on them. I'll stick to hard work (if only I did...) and protein and vitamin supplements. Glucosamine is good, too.

 

[Kenpomachine]

Funny. While there's been studies showing the benefits from creatine (which has an endogenous, that means your body produces it naturally) and caffeine with no side effects, from proteins there has only been evidence of completing your nutrition when it's lacking in proteins, but no extra benefits in performing. And an overload in liposoluble vitamins may cause some illnesses.

The better thing is to ask a doctor.

 

[Kalicombat]

It has been my experience over the last twenty five years of lifting that just hitting the big three, squat, bench, and deadlift, with a few accessory excercises will benefit anyone the most. Competitive bodybuiling is different in that they have to work all their muscles. However for overall strength, the one excercise that is a must is Squats. Squats have more of an adrogenic effect on the human body then any amount of creatine, glutamine, etc. A high quality whey protein and a multivitamin are your best bet for any and all supplementation. Eat well, SLEEP enough and periodize your workouts. Also, stretching and deep tissue massage will help with muscle recovery. Too many people pick up a bodybuilding magazine and get the impression that they can look like the pro bodybuilders on the pages. You cant with out anabolic steroids, seriously good genetics, and lots and lots of dedication.

Gary Catherman

 

[Bagatha]

Creatine Kicks serious butt. I was VERY reluctant at first to even experiment with it until I did some research. Its in your body right now, and its in every meat product you eat, especially beef. I personally have noticed EXTREME results in terms of performance AND recovery. Some will say that it should not help performance by nature, but I have read several articles here on the net regarding experimentation with creatine and football players that proves otherwise. It is a tricky suppliment though, you have to time everything perfectly otherwise it just goes to waste.

Ephedrine is a banned substance in most international events as is other forms of caffiene and even some asthma inhalers. Which is reason enough not to take it if you compete. Creatine as far as I know, is ok.

 

[Kenpomachine]

Caffeine is also allow in low doses, like say and or two expresso or half liter CocaCola.

And yes, creatine phospate (sp?) is one of the first fuels the muscle use. Complementing with creatine is said to benefit anaerobial exercises and recovery the best.

Anybody with doubts try doing some research in serious medical journals, like the New England Journal of Medicine

But unless you're a pro, you'll benefit more from training, training and more training, proper diet and enough quality sleep, like Kalicombat said.

 

[Kenpomachine]

Originally posted by Bagatha
Creatine Kicks serious butt. I was VERY reluctant at first to even experiment with it until I did some research. Its in your body right now, and its in every meat product you eat, especially beef. I personally have noticed EXTREME results in terms of performance AND recovery. Some will say that it should not help performance by nature, but I have read several articles here on the net regarding experimentation with creatine and football players that proves otherwise. It is a tricky suppliment though, you have to time everything perfectly otherwise it just goes to waste.

Ephedrine is a banned substance in most international events as is other forms of caffiene and even some asthma inhalers. Which is reason enough not to take it if you compete. Creatine as far as I know, is ok.

Yes, yes, yes. You are soooo right.

Regarding proteins, I have just remembered that if you overload on a regular basis you can get uric acid in you blood, which in the past was an ilness of rich people.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by Bagatha
Creatine Kicks serious butt. I was VERY reluctant at first to even experiment with it until I did some research. Its in your body right now, and its in every meat product you eat, especially beef. I personally have noticed EXTREME results in terms of performance AND recovery. Some will say that it should not help performance by nature, but I have read several articles here on the net regarding experimentation with creatine and football players that proves otherwise. It is a tricky suppliment though, you have to time everything perfectly otherwise it just goes to waste.

I used Cell-Tech for quite a while in preperation of my last test. Cell-tech is absolutely awesome. There's a regular creatine your body produces. As you age you produce less and less. Anyway as long as you drink the appropriate amount of water with it you'll makes leaps and bounds in weight lifting. The recovery is just phenominal as well. I pounded out some serious weight during a work out and in the morning I woke up not even being sore. The rule of thumb was drink half of your body weight in ounces everyday. Drink your Nitro-Tech and your Cell-tech and you'll make serious gains.

 

[JDenz]

Judo to get back on topic if you want to be in UFC your are going to have to pound more then just creatine. If you are around two hundred pounds you need about 5-10 grams a day not 500. If you are taking 500 grams a day you woud be poor in the bathroom sick all day. lol. The loading crap is garbage. In all the time that we have been supplementing wih creatine mainstream (late 90's) there hasn't been one study where the benifits of creatine over a 6 month period are diffrent from loading to not loading. So don't worry about loading just do maintaince. Also the premixed creatine and carbs have wrked the best for me. I have traid just about every brand and I found the best two to be the EAS brand and Cell-Tech.
If you are going to fight in UFC you need to be on a lot of supplements and train for a long time. Sometime along the road you are probabley going to need to hit the juice. Not only that you are going to need to hook up with one of the big name teams or have huge succes at a combt sport. (olympics for, Judo,wrestling) Champion in boxing, kickboxing, MT. Well you get the picture.
for me Ephedrine rocks. I have had some of my best workouts, and best cuts while on it. The only side effects that I had was it made me jittery.
Well that is my 2 cents

 

[cassidy]

Cell tech and nitro-tech are way,way, overpriced all that nitro tech is is whey protein and arginine, Cell tech is sugar ALA and creatine there are better products or products that are just as good for a lot less money. Go to musclemag.com or bodybuilding .com Good lord please quit waisting money on muscle tech garbage.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by cassidy
Cell tech and nitro-tech are way,way, overpriced all that nitro tech is is whey protein and arginine, Cell tech is sugar ALA and creatine there are better products or products that are just as good for a lot less money. Go to musclemag.com or bodybuilding .com Good lord please quit waisting money on muscle tech garbage.

Yeah I know what you mean. I actually was buying them off of the internet on some discount wholesalers. They seemed to be around 20 or so dollars less a conainer. After most of the research I did there really wasn't anything that stood out as close. Maybe I didn't look hard enough but I did purchase at a lesser price otherwise I'd really be in the poor house.

 

[cassidy]

Jfarnsworth pm me and I will let you in on something.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Creatine is pretty safe, just three amino acids. There are no studies saying that creatine causes liver or kidney damage, it just does the opposite in saying it's good for your health...

I don't take it as a supplement, but if you do, don't take it in a pill form. Powder is best, and look for high-quality creatine, not the cheap stuff. When you use creatine, YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO CYCLE. The negative effects of creatine, from stomach problems to excessive gas, are from using it improperly. Well, creatine causes gas anyway, but it can be reduced greatly.

Go to bodybuilding.com and check out its forums. They talk a great deal on supplements. Of course, they are bias as a lot of them promote the use of steroids and such, but they have a lot of studies to back up a lot of their claims.

First, I quoted this post, it is not a personal attack on MartialArtist , and I will make comments about other posts here as well.

How can this be safe, for when I had a blood test run and the doctor came and asked me if I was taking some form of Creatine. I replied no. He was visible upset. The level on the test was just over the normal limit found in a male working out a lot. I do not work out a lot. He ran the test again and I was just under the limit the next time. He told me that if I was to take any form of Creatine I was risking my overall health and the health of my kidneys. I know no one has done a study or one that is published.

As for the quote above about it being three simple amino acids, the two sugars that make up Nutrasweet (* registered trade mark *), AKA Equal or Aspartame are found naturally in milk and in a Banana. Yet if you combine these two compounds you get NutraSweet. Now before you go and get all upset, I did the research years ago. It is currently banned in New Mexico, so e-mail me and I can give you the complete story there. But, the point is two things put that are safe separate are not always safe together.


THERFORE Judo-Kid no matter how much we have disagreed before, I recommend you do not take this chemical in any form. Yet I also recommend you do your own research and find out for yourself. Including talking to your doctor.

More to come . . .

 

[cassidy]

Don't just talk to a doctor talk to a doctor in sports medicine or a sports nutritionist or a doctor for a pro sports team or division1 college team. Please don't ask a normal; doctor who says you get everything you need from a diet. Also creatine is naturally occuring in red meat by taking extra you are just saturating your muscles in it. Don't eat red meat it might be bad for you and cause kidney failure. hehehe

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by cassidy
Don't just talk to a doctor talk to a doctor in sports medicine or a sports nutritionist or a doctor for a pro sports team or division1 college team. Please don't ask a normal; doctor who says you get everything you need from a diet. Also creatine is naturally occuring in red meat by taking extra you are just saturating your muscles in it. Don't eat red meat it might be bad for you and cause kidney failure. hehehe

Cassidy,

Please read your post to Nightingale about knowing what you are talking about and not looking like a fool. Also be open minded enough to realize that there might be an opinion that is different from yours and that oh my GOSH! it might be right. Oh yeah cheap Laugh HEHEHEHEHE so as not to be insulting. PS Cassidy Spell Check your posts. It makes you read more respectable.

Red meat may have it I do not know. I am willing to take Cassidy's word on this. Yet, do you know how red meat is cured or aged???? That white stuff you see hanging on sides of meat in meat houses is MOLD. And since Penicillin comes from Mold if you eat raw meat you can cure a virus. (* Seeing being funny could be misleading to the uneducated *)

Sorry for that Rant, Cassidy may have something to offer and he may have some life experience to share here. Yet I am finding his attitude a little hard to take.

Who am I, to make this post. No One. Just trying to post here also on a debate. Just because we may differ does not mean you have to be insulting or arrogant. Continue with your regimen, maybe in ten years you can come back and tell me how your kidneys and or testicles or your general health is. My experience from those who used Steroids and other supplemnets is that they now have some issue with their bodies they did not believe possible when they were taking the drugs. Not many are willing to come forward and look like a fool for disagreeing with what they said before.

For your sake Cassidy, I do hope it is 100% safe and you and everyone else will be just fine using it. Just be aware of what is out there. And just because it is FDA approved does not mean it is safe. E-mail me or PM me and I can tell anyone more.

Just my Opinions. Everyone else is entitled to their own. Just do not belittle those that disagree with you.

PS: NOTE TO self, Please read your own post and try to live and post by it.

 

[cassidy]

Sorry about that nothing was meant to be insulting or have any offense taken. Sorry if I did offend you. My thing with nightingale is old news and it has bee resolved. What do I not live by in my old post that you are refering to. Once again I am truly sorry to have offended you.

 

[cassidy]

oops spell check darnit I forgot the n on been.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by cassidy
oops spell check darnit I forgot the n on been.

Cassidy,
If less than an hour you can go back and edit your post.

Just a helpful hint.

 

[JDenz]

Bottom line weather or not supplements are healthy I will argue with anyone anytime that most of them are. There are excetions and there are always rip offs (I am telling you Cell-Tech is the best creatine on the market that I have tried. Anyway If you want to be at the highestlevels ofa sport you need suplimentation.