Enough to gag a maggot
- Thread starter Balrog
- Start date
Headhunter
Senior Master
Couldn't even bring myself to watch it. It'd just anger me to much. I hate people like that. Now if you're religious that's perfectly fine nothing against that you live your life whatever way you like but what I hate is when they start trying to shove their religion down you're throat expecting people to have their beliefs and talking down on people who don't
jobo
Grandmaster
martial art can/ do come with a belief system are are at least tp some part of a religion,thats contrary to Christianity's teaching , it hardly surprising they view it with hostility, as they would any other teaching
Without even watching, I totally agree, with this guy. Everybody is at risk! I would call it cultural Marxism, but it is actually IDOLATRY! Run for your lives! 
jobo
Grandmaster
that's good with out watching, setting up the instructor as an idol to be worshipped and obeyed was one of his main points.Without even watching, I totally agree, with this guy. Everybody is at risk! I would call it cultural Marxism, but it is actually IDOLATRY! Run for your lives!
I have been in a few discussions, about the concept, already. I already know what you guys are going to say.
oftheherd1
Senior Master
I haven't yet had time to watch it. But I am familiar with there being objections to MA by some religious groups. In Larsen's Book of the Cults, he does mention Martial Arts as a cult. I don't think that can be said of all religions.
I do not know what made him say that. However, as far as I know, Aikido bows to a replica of its founder, before and after class. If that is not for religious reasons, fine. But I would be uncomfortable doing that unless I was certain there was no religion involved, such as ancestor worship. Recently there was a rancorous discussion on animism being an integral part of all Japanese based systems.
So while I don't know enough about those martial arts to judge, nor any others than my own, I can only say my martial art is not a cult by any definition. No doubt others may not be as well.
Unfortunately, too many people don't really know anything about martial arts except what they have heard from others, whom they no doubt trust, but who also have no first hand knowledge. That causes people to square off against each other and react only on emotion. Usually serves no useful purpose.
JR 137
Grandmaster
I saw the video a while back. The guy's a jackass. He got caught up with some oddball teachers who were making up some ridiculous traditions to make themselves seem legit.
And he made some outrageous claims like students performed techniques on command by the teachers like they were brainwashed by evil. MA students aren't the only ones who follow directions by a teacher/coach counting off - every organized sport and physical activity does this.
He went on to say he was so ingrained in the "cult" that it ruined his relationships. It wasn't the MA, it was his ignoring his responsibilities and training instead.
So many ludicrous things in the video. The guy's got such a warped sense of reality that it's beyond pathetic.
For those of you who've got nothing better to do for 45 minutes or however long it is and want to watch a delusion unfold in a tragically pathetic yet comical manner, watch it. You won't regret it.
And he made some outrageous claims like students performed techniques on command by the teachers like they were brainwashed by evil. MA students aren't the only ones who follow directions by a teacher/coach counting off - every organized sport and physical activity does this.
He went on to say he was so ingrained in the "cult" that it ruined his relationships. It wasn't the MA, it was his ignoring his responsibilities and training instead.
So many ludicrous things in the video. The guy's got such a warped sense of reality that it's beyond pathetic.
For those of you who've got nothing better to do for 45 minutes or however long it is and want to watch a delusion unfold in a tragically pathetic yet comical manner, watch it. You won't regret it.
I agree with him. Everyone with a colored belt is the devil. lol. White to Black represents the loss of good (white) and the gain of evil (black).
People like that guy are nuts. I've seen only 5 or 10 minutes of it in the past and then I just turned it off. Didn't want to waste anymore time than I did.
People like that guy are nuts. I've seen only 5 or 10 minutes of it in the past and then I just turned it off. Didn't want to waste anymore time than I did.
Yes I would describe it simply as "having reverence for".. you know like you might have reverence for say, an erudite teacher not just because they are emissary of the Word or λόγος or Knowledge and but also because of their intent in disseminating to you.. so you would not worship that teacher.. or least I *think* you ought not to
x
jobo
Grandmaster
it depends on your definition of cult, it doesn't have to have a religion base to be a cult. But martials arts,are very much tied up with religion, whether you your self are religious or not. You are partaking in religous ceremonies
Martial arts aren't 'very much tied up' in religion, that's a sweeping misunderstanding of the truth. We aren't partaking in religious ceremonies unless you are going to start with that old chestnut of bowing which really isn't of any religious significance in martial arts. It isn't of any significance in religions other than being a way of showing respect to something.
There is no religious ceremony in stepping forward into fighting stance or punching or kicking or sparring, not even any in kata.
I don't think the originators of any of the martial arts had any thoughts of it being of religious significance either, in the East religious thought does permeate live from day to day than in the West where religion is put in it's own compartment in people's lives. It's more to do with behaving in a way that is accordant with their beliefs every minute of the day so that every action is in harmony with their beliefs. It's not that martial arts was part of their religion, it's that it is to be performed in a way that is in keeping with those beliefs.
There plenty of schools that do push the culture; so, your military club, might not be as typical as you think. Yeah, you are a typical competition school, but the sport aspect is not what everyone is looking for, when they get sucked in.
oftheherd1
Senior Master
But that is the normal usage of the word cult, that it is something to do with somewhat religious beliefs, but strays from the accepted norms.
From What Is a Religious Cult? - Christian Research Institute is the following, which I am not sure is the best description, but I guess close enough:
WHAT IS A CULT?- Introduction
With such an overwhelming number of religious groups around these days, it is necessary to understand the difference between a legitimate religious group and a cult. What exactly is a cult?
WHAT IS A CULT- Definitions
There are two ways to define a cult. The first way to describe a cult is popular in the secular media. From this perspective, a cult is a religious or semi-religious sect whose members are controlled almost entirely by a single individual or by an organization.
This kind of cult is usually manipulative, demanding total commitment and loyalty from its followers. Converts are usually cut off from all former associations, including their own families. The Hare Krishnas, the Family of Love led by Moses David Berg, and Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church are some examples of this kind of a cult.
The second way to define a cult is popular in evangelical Christian circles. From this perspective, a cult is any group that deviates from the orthodox teachings of the historic Christian faith being derived from the Bible and confirmed through the ancient ecumenical creeds.
WHAT IS A CULT- Psuedo-Christian Cults
These groups deny or distort fundamental Christian doctrines such as the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and salvation by grace through faith alone. Some cults that would fall into this category are the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Science, The Way International, and the Unity School of christianity.
Most of these cults claim to be Christian, and even consider the Bible to be authoritative. But they manipulate the Scriptures to fit their own beliefs. Although they may claim to serve Jesus Christ, and may even use the same terminology orthodox Christians use, their definitions are vastly different.
WHAT IS A CULT- The Dangers of False Teachings
These groups do not lead to the Christ of the Bible, but to another Jesus and another gospel (2 Cor. 11:1-4; Gal. 1:8,9). We must therefore reject these false teachings, and “earnestly contend for the faith which was once and for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). And, of course, remember the Bible also goes on to admonish us that we must do this with gentleness, and with respect. Remember, you must present the message, but you need to recognize that it is only the Holy Spirit that changes the heart.
On the cults and answering the question “What is a cult”, that’s the Bible Answer Man Perspective. I’m Hank Hanegraaff.
As to your statement that all martial arts are tied up with religion - no. The TKD I studied under Jhoon Goo Rhee was not, which is ironic as he was at that time at least a member of the Unification Church. Nor was the Hapkido I studied tied up with nor philosophically controlled by any religion. My GM was a Baptist.
I do not intend to participate in a rehash of the thread which tried to show animism at the base of all MA. I can only speak of the two I studied. They were not influenced by any religion. If you or anyone else wishes to believe that, do it and be happy. I do not believe all are, if any are.
OP
OP
Balrog
Master of Arts
Obeyed, yes. Worshipped, not so much. I think I can pretty much state that my students don't worship me.
OP
OP
Balrog
Master of Arts
I can state without hesitation that there are no religious ceremonies performed in my school. I'm agnostic and I require my students to be agnostic while in my school. No proselytizing, no discussion of theology, etc. I have a mixture of Christians, Muslims, Jews and heathens and we all get along just fine.
There plenty of schools that do push the culture; so, your military club, might not be as typical as you think. Yeah, you are a typical competition school, but the sport aspect is not what everyone is looking for, when they get sucked in.
And what did you think I did before we started this club? I have been in martial arts for decades, been around a lot of clubs, met a lot of people and I can tell you that in the UK religions aren't a factor in martial arts here, in fact religions aren't much of a factor in anything here.
We aren't a typical competition club either as only one in 10 will compete, the rest just train. They have also been in other clubs, go on to other clubs and they don't have anything to do with religion either. Religion ( outside the nasty extreme right wing and their hatreds) is rarely brought up in this country, mostly because of the horrendous history we have, these days it's something that's personal and kept to yourself.
That's exactly how everyone I've trained has been and it's exactly how it suits me and all the other people I've met in these places.
Outside of England, the most common thing to happen is for students to take up Buddhism, or at least take a great interest. This is not bad, from a global standpoint; because, they see Christianity within Buddhism, and latch on to that, for the most part. However, this isn't recommended.
lklawson
Grandmaster
St. Peter was a Martial Artists. So were several other of the Apostles. They practiced Sword Arts.
Some of my friends claim that these fine upstanding Jews went out and joined a Cult.
