Enlightenment and Awareness confusion?

Corporal Hicks

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Hi,
Recently as some of you may now I have been studying Buddhism (Zen). Now I was under the impression that enlightenment is that same goal as expressed in the Power of Now, the feeling of intense awareness of the world around you? Or am I incorrect?
Is Zen Buddhism trying to achieve this state of intense awareness that some of us have experienced as explained in the power of now, or are the two completely different?
I realise that Buddhism is also about eradicating suffering etc etc but is the ultimate goal of enlightenment to become intensely aware as well as to end all suffering?
As I feel that I may infact not be looking for my goal? As my goal is to replicate this feelings of intense awareness and consciousness? Will that be achieved eventually through Buddhism practice?
Regards
 

Matt Stone

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Yes. :)

No. :(

Maybe. :idunno:

Keep breathing... :fart:

Enjoy. :boing1:

The True Way cannot be named or explained. It can only be grasped, experienced, and understood. When you get there, you'll know. If you think you've arrived, you have more work to do...

Good luck.

:asian:
 
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Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

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But? eugh! Is the point of meditation to become intensely aware of the world around you or that goal of enlightenment something different?
 

Matt Stone

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The point of meditation is meditation. The point of becoming aware of your surroundings is becoming aware of your surroundings...

Consider this: "Enlightenment isn't what you think." Roll that around in your head a bit. It'll help and it'll confound. But that's the point of helping and confounding...

:asian:
 
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Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

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Matt Stone said:
The point of meditation is meditation. The point of becoming aware of your surroundings is becoming aware of your surroundings...

Consider this: "Enlightenment isn't what you think." Roll that around in your head a bit. It'll help and it'll confound. But that's the point of helping and confounding...

:asian:
Does meditation aid in becoming more aware of your surroundings?
 

Matt Stone

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The short answer is that "it helps."

Meditation isn't the key to becoming "more aware." Meditate for the sake of meditation. The entertaining side effects should not be the goal, nor should they distract you from the task at hand.

Becoming more aware of your surroundings helps you become more aware of your surroundings...
 

Eldritch Knight

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Zen's weird that way. Take the koans, for instance. The idea isn't to come up with an answer to them, but to better understand the question and draw a better understanding of the universe from that. Likewise, meditation isn't done for the express purpose of becoming enlightened or to acheive some purpose, but simply to become better at meditation.
 

Flatlander

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Meditation is practice being in your environment without the clutter of yourself getting in the way. Quiet your mind and feel and experience. This will eventually help you become more aware of your surroundings.

"Enlightenment isn't what you think."
I like that.
 

MA-Caver

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Corporal Hicks said:
But? eugh! Is the point of meditation to become intensely aware of the world around you or that goal of enlightenment something different?
Matt Stone said:
The point of meditation is meditation. The point of becoming aware of your surroundings is becoming aware of your surroundings...
Corporal Hicks said:
Does meditation aid in becoming more aware of your surroundings?
As I've always known it and as I've learned by reading about the zen/buddist/hindu/nepalanese masters and so forth; Meditation is about becoming aware of self. What's going on inside you and everything that you've learned about from your journey (through life) thus far. Your schooling, work, martial arts and life experiences. It's seeking deep down inside yourself and taking the time to actually think of everything that you've learned and how it has made you... you.
Meditation does aid in becoming more aware of your surroundings but on the spiritual plane than the tangible one. Aware of the life-force in every living thing around you, trees, grass, rocks, earth, wind and so on. At the risk of sounding like Yoda, meditation helps you be aware of the "force", which in other-words is... life. It's a spiritual thing and it can be (in my experience) found only from within yourself. The enlightenment is your understanding as a result of your meditation. It also helps understanding of your own power, energy or "force" if you will. How your body works and it's strengths and weaknesses. It's deep thoughts about what's going on. How you think, how you feel, not what you're feeling but how you go about feeling. What makes your body move? How your mind processes the things you've learned. How you focus on things. Your method of concentration and processing information.
All of it is internal and focused on the self. Then taking that to the next level how the self works around your world as you know it. Which is awareness.

"Awareness" comes in two forms; the first stems from the understanding you've achieved and thus on a concious level you are seeing your world around you in a new "light" (en"lighten"ment). The second is situational awareness which (should be) heightened by the first and you're able to see potential all around you. Potential for helping someone (with whatever), potential of danger and so forth.

You're young and thus have tremendous opportunity to expand your mind and your self in a manner that (relatively) few people can and have achieved.

Hope that helps a bit more...

:asian:
 
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Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

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MACaver said:
Meditation does aid in becoming more aware of your surroundings but on the spiritual plane than the tangible one. Aware of the life-force in every living thing around you, trees, grass, rocks, earth, wind and so on.

:asian:
MACaver said:
"Awareness" comes in two forms; the first stems from the understanding you've achieved and thus on a concious level you are seeing your world around you in a new "light" (en"lighten"ment).
:asian:
Now that is what I was talking about, if any of you have read the power of now then you will understand what I mean. This is the point I was getting to. To meditate is to enhance the above? Or to continue to meditate is to enhance the oppotunity for the above!

MACaver said:
You're young and thus have tremendous opportunity to expand your mind and your self in a manner that (relatively) few people can and have achieved.

Hope that helps a bit more...

:asian:
Thats one opportunity I dont want to miss out on, but some of this is so confusing, I dont mean on this thread but over all, reading the books and taking snipets of the teachings.........
The thing that worries me is going to university and not at least in some aspect being able to be totally 'there' if you know what I mean, I wouldnt want to come out of thinking that its just 'gone by' and that I didnt appreciate it all, or totally 'experience' it!


Thanks for the posts everybody, I'm still a beginner here, trying to grasp and getting confused, but with time.....
 

Tgace

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Boiled down, meditation is about silencing all that "radio chatter" in your head. A side result of doing that is that you start "hearing" (observing) better because there are less distractions.
 

Rich Parsons

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Not being an expert at any of this, I sometimes refer to my mowing the lawn wiht my push lawn mower and riding my motorcycle as my Zen moments, I am at one with my surroundings and at peace. I try to increase my awareness without trying to decrease my enjoyment of the moment, or loose the connectivity to the environment.

Just my approach, not valid, not the answer, just my approach to describe some events that happen in my life. :)

:asian:
 

MA-Caver

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Tgace said:
Boiled down, meditation is about silencing all that "radio chatter" in your head. A side result of doing that is that you start "hearing" (observing) better because there are less distractions.
Exactly and much better put than my long winded-ness... learning to be still enough to hear your own heartbeat, your own spirit speaking to you.

Rich Parsons said:
Not being an expert at any of this, I sometimes refer to my mowing the lawn wiht my push lawn mower and riding my motorcycle as my Zen moments, I am at one with my surroundings and at peace. I try to increase my awareness without trying to decrease my enjoyment of the moment, or loose the connectivity to the environment.

Just my approach, not valid, not the answer, just my approach to describe some events that happen in my life.

Exactly. it's not going to be the same for everyone. Nor is it going to be the same method. The cliche of sitting with legs folded in a lotus postion and chanting "OOM" is just that, a cliche. It takes practice and it takes thought but you do find ways to "listen" to your innerself. When you learn to recognize that voice that is yours and yours alone then you will learn how to follow it. Hint: it's your heart and soul speaking.

I like the lyrics to this Eagles song... by the way.
Learn To Be Still
It's just another day in paradise
As you stumble to your bed
You'd give anything to silence
Those voices ringing in your head
You thought you could find happiness
Just over that green hill
You thought you would be satisfied
But you never will-
Learn to be still

We are like sheep without a shepherd
We don't know how to be alone
So we wander 'round this desert
And wind up following the wrong gods home
But the flock cries out for another
And they keep answering that bell
And one more starry-eyed messiah
Meets a violent farewell-
Learn to be still
Learn to be still

Now the flowers in your garden
They don't smell so sweet
Maybe you've forgotten
The heaven lying at your feet

[Solo]

There are so many contridictions
In all these messages we send
(We keep asking)
How do I get out of here
Where do I fit in?
Though the world is torn and shaken
Even if your heart is breakin'
It's waiting for you to awaken
And someday you will-
Learn to be still
Learn to be still

You just keep on runnin'
Keep on runnin'
 

Matt Stone

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So much talking about not talking...

So many words describing wordlessness...

CPL Hicks needs to meditate on meditating so he can meditate better, according to him...

Meditation is about meditation. Becoming more aware of your surroundings comes from becoming more aware of your surroundings. Beware the flower; it distracts from the wonder of the tree from which it blooms...
 

Rich Parsons

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Matt Stone said:
Meditation is about meditation. Becoming more aware of your surroundings comes from becoming more aware of your surroundings. Beware the flower; it distracts from the wonder of the tree from which it blooms...

Yet I also enjoy hearing and watching the bee dance from flower to flower, as the bird sings, and ..., . :)
 
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Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

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Matt Stone said:
So much talking about not talking...

So many words describing wordlessness...

CPL Hicks needs to meditate on meditating so he can meditate better, according to him...

Meditation is about meditation. Becoming more aware of your surroundings comes from becoming more aware of your surroundings. Beware the flower; it distracts from the wonder of the tree from which it blooms...
Just like you shouldnt focus on the finger that points to the moon! If you do, you shall miss all that heavenly glory! quote BL
 

shesulsa

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I always related "Awareness" to the intense senses of all around you including that within you, and "Enlightenment" to the understanding of all around you including that within you, all that has been, all that is to be.
 
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Corporal Hicks

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shesulsa said:
I always related "Awareness" to the intense senses of all around you including that within you, and "Enlightenment" to the understanding of all around you including that within you, all that has been, all that is to be.
Thats what confused me?:idunno:
 

Matt Stone

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Corporal Hicks said:
Thats what confused me?:idunno:

What is confusing you is your continued attempts to rationalize and describe a concept, feeling, and condition that refuses to be limited by dualistic labels.

Non-duality is the core of Zen teaching, the goal is to achieve a condition whereby the true nature of a thing is directly experienced independent from its dualistic labeling.

Stop thinking (think about that one).

Just "be."

Remember the Zen admonition - "When you stand, just stand. When you sit, just sit. Whatever you do, don't wobble."

Go think about that... :rolleyes:

:asian:
 

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