Elliot Rodgers: a Bizarre Fact

[wingchun100]

This is random, maybe even pointless, but I found it interesting.

On the way to work I was listening to them talk about the latest homicidal/suicidal maniac, Elliot Rodgers. They said there was an article written where the author blamed JUDD APATOW/SETH ROGEN movies for this guy's rampage. I don't know why; something to do with the fact that those movies are almost always about the goofy guy getting the hot girl.

What struck me as interesting about it is that they are blaming friggin' COMEDIES. It used to be "blame heavy metal, blame horror movies/novels, blame DOOM." Now we are pointing the finger at movies that are supposed to make us laugh and bring some kind of sunshine to break through the clouds of the insanity that is the modern world.

 

[granfire]

Your Princess Is in Another Castle: Misogyny, Entitlement, and Nerds - The Daily Beast

you should read it.

A bit of the problem society is having is mirrored in this little problem:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/29-locker-room-bar-grill/114398-what-would-you-do.html

a bit obscured it seems by the 'bully factor' but in essence, the little girl is not being protected from weirdo boy forcing himself on her.

 

[wingchun100]

I'm not even going to touch on whether he was a weirdo or not. I'm just saying I have never seen a psycho's rampage get blamed on a comedy. That's all.

 

[crushing]

I'm not even going to touch on whether he was a weirdo or not. I'm just saying I have never seen a psycho's rampage get blamed on a comedy. That's all.

I still haven't seen it. Who are the "they" in the OP, and what was the article? Maybe you misunderstood them, or they misunderstood (or misrepresented) the article?

 

[wingchun100]

No mistake. I didn't catch the author name. I do know that Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow responded to it.

 

[granfire]

I'm not even going to touch on whether he was a weirdo or not. I'm just saying I have never seen a psycho's rampage get blamed on a comedy. That's all.

I think you missed it.
I mean it is easy to miss when you laugh.

The little things that look good in the movie or sound good in a song (Every Breath You Take - it's creepy stalkerish....)

I mean, why is it that we find the persistent advances of the precocious nerd so endearing? Just because he isn't creepy - yet? Otherwise you'd consider it stalking.

Pop in and read #YesAllWomen.
Nope, not all guys are a-holes. But pretty much every woman has at one point in her life encountered such a person who expected her to comply with his wishes for some reason or another, becoming upset when the expectations were not met. Of course not all were violent, but as a constant drip of water can hollow out stone, it is allowed to be perpetuated.
Awe, how cute, the little boy bear hugging the little girl to give her a kiss....ah, she is just playing hard to get, saying no....

or as the saying goes: 'With a guy 'No' is the end of the discussion - with a woman it's the beginning of negotiations'

Revenge of the Nerds is over 30 years old by now....and the myth that the nerd guy gets the girl is older than that. Ongoing conditioning. Sure, it's fiction, but how long can a mind resist the constant feeding of certain 'facts'?

it's not like the guy assumes he has all the answers. Consider it the fruit of his thought process.
The problem is like Ogres: It has many layers. He just peeled one away.

More food for thought. This article precedes the shooting by a few miles though:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201883.html

 

[wingchun100]

I read the article. I didn't miss anything. And again, I wasn't commenting on whether or not there is something to it...just that I have never heard of a comedy being blamed for anything like this. Although for the record, it isn't Seth Rogen's fault this guy's life didn't turn out the way a movie did. It's called "fiction" for a reason.

 

[granfire]

I read the article. I didn't miss anything. And again, I wasn't commenting on whether or not there is something to it...just that I have never heard of a comedy being blamed for anything like this. Although for the record, it isn't Seth Rogen's fault this guy's life didn't turn out the way a movie did. It's called "fiction" for a reason.

Yes. you missed it.

No, it's not that comedy made him do it.
But the perpetuated tropes have their part in it, are pieces of the puzzle.
Layers, like onions....peel them back. Be honest with yourself.

 

[crushing]

No mistake. I didn't catch the author name. I do know that Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow responded to it.

For anyone interested:

The article:

In a final videotaped message, a sad reflection of the sexist stories we so often see on screen - The Washington Post

Rogen and Apatow's response:

Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow: Don?t blame us for misogynistic massacre

 

[wingchun100]

Yes. you missed it.

I hate to disagree, but I'm going to have to. I don't think any woman owes me anything simply because a nerdy guy in a movie got the cheerleader just because he was persistent.

 

[jks9199]

The movies, tv shows, comic books and other pop culture (or even regular culture) tropes and set ups didn't cause nor do they excuse Rodgers's actions. But they do contribute to unrealistic expectations or ideas which, in someone who's already messed up, may lead to such actions. Not will, not must, but may. It's an issue worth discussing and exploring so that perhaps we can change it.

 

[aedrasteia]

Apology to WC if i drift this a little - not sure if this is new thread.
apologize also if this too long -

specific, sometimes viscious ugliness about women (yeah and others too) seeps into all kinds of 'entertainment'.
people who point out the repulsive/not-very-funny are labeled prudes or humorless or delusional. noteasy to be on the receiving end, endlessly. yeah - Tosh rape jokes, everybody else's rape joke. endless rape jokes. endless. rape. jokes.

and even a guy like Apatow or rogan gets a 'hot' blond girl in the movie. the shooter felt entitled to
one too. Blame them? no. they made a fantasy-comedy. he thought he deserved it too
and he had lots of help believing that.

anybody read the murderer's statements? - written 'manifesto'? see the videos?
anybody access the PUA, hate women forums/websites? he's an outlier, but not by much.
And he's got fans, supporters - 'its about time somebody gave those cunts what they deserve'.
yes - he killed 3 men - and specifically selected them for their supposed 'success' with women
they didn't deserve. those stupid evil women.

 

[granfire]

Apology to WC if i drift this a little - not sure if this is new thread.
apologize also if this too long -

specific, sometimes viscious ugliness about women (yeah and others too) seeps into all kinds of 'entertainment'.
people who point out the repulsive/not-very-funny are labeled prudes or humorless or delusional. noteasy to be on the receiving end, endlessly. yeah - Tosh rape jokes, everybody else's rape joke. endless rape jokes. endless. rape. jokes.

and even a guy like Apatow or rogan gets a 'hot' blond girl in the movie. the shooter felt entitled to
one too. Blame them? no. they made a fantasy-comedy. he thought he deserved it too
and he had lots of help believing that.

anybody read the murderer's statements? - written 'manifesto'? see the videos?
anybody access the PUA, hate women forums/websites? he's an outlier, but not by much.
And he's got fans, supporters - 'its about time somebody gave those cunts what they deserve'.
yes - he killed 3 men - and specifically selected them for their supposed 'success' with women
they didn't deserve. those stupid evil women.

Sad but true.
Talk to a woman - any woman - I am sure she will have a story about running into a flaming misogynist at one point in her life.
Now, mind you, not all know it when it happens - my friend in high school had no clue as to what a jerk that boy she was dating was. I am just glad they broke it off shortly after she (barely, thanks to that miserable human being) graduated high school. The boy had been trained from early on by his daddy dearest. Too bad that the new generation of women took less crap...

It's the things that don't register when it's 'normal behavior': Men looking at the body parts of a woman, not the face.
When another man does likewise to them, they feel violated (like stumbling into the notorious gay pick up spots late at night). It creeps them out.

it's the little girls who are told how cute it is that the little boy tackles them to kiss them - against their will. The girls that are told they are mean to not go out on a date with that persistent guy. The list is endless.

Life owes you nothing.
Not a girl, car, house with picket fence or the dog. Not one thing.

 

[crushing]

The movies, tv shows, comic books and other pop culture (or even regular culture) tropes and set ups didn't cause nor do they excuse Rodgers's actions. But they do contribute to unrealistic expectations or ideas which, in someone who's already messed up, may lead to such actions. Not will, not must, but may. It's an issue worth discussing and exploring so that perhaps we can change it.

Such media may create a confirmation bias within an individual that has already been indoctrinated in the objectification of women and misogynous attitudes. Such views of women can come about at an early age when authority figures compel belief in "truths" that women should submit and learn from men in silence and subjection and fear and that they are the source of ancestral sin. As we have become more enlightened (some may claim hell-bound) we have moved away from from such antiquated and superstitious beliefs, but unfortunately, such beliefs still have quite a hold on minds of many.

 

[Master Dan]

It is a proven fact that boys as they enter Puberty have homicidal thoughts and urges in development even Oedipus thoughts for their mother what controls that is a family basis structure and controls that fold in telling them no matter what stop!!!!! Parents MA training or Guardians are the only stop gap' Left to social media and non parents we are doomed. I ran a program with the worst teenage offenders who committed murder and violent crimes and the behavior health professional I worked with that taught me a lot said they could not sleep at nigh knowing they would one day be released and we and us would bed at risk

 

[granfire]

It is a proven fact that boys as they enter Puberty have homicidal thoughts and urges in development even Oedipus thoughts for their mother what controls that is a family basis structure and controls that fold in telling them no matter what stop!!!!! Parents MA training or Guardians are the only stop gap' Left to social media and non parents we are doomed. I ran a program with the worst teenage offenders who committed murder and violent crimes and the behavior health professional I worked with that taught me a lot said they could not sleep at nigh knowing they would one day be released and we and us would bed at risk

A) I am not sure I can agree with you on all points. I don't believe all males are homocidal maniacs, only reined in by the flimsy restrained of parenting.

B) The behavior predates social media by centuries.

C) It's much more subtle than what you experienced.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think we can all agree their is plenty of blame to go around. Why pick just one thing?

 

[granfire]

I think we can all agree their is plenty of blame to go around. Why pick just one thing?

Just ask the women in your life. And when they tell you listen!
It's really that simple.


Killer Elliot Rodger's rants inspired #YesAllWomen tweets - CNN.com

 

[ballen0351]

Just ask the women in your life. And when they tell you listen!
It's really that simple.


Killer Elliot Rodger's rants inspired #YesAllWomen tweets - CNN.com

Easy to find oppression when your activity trying to find it even when it's not there

 

[jks9199]

Such media may create a confirmation bias within an individual that has already been indoctrinated in the objectification of women and misogynous attitudes. Such views of women can come about at an early age when authority figures compel belief in "truths" that women should submit and learn from men in silence and subjection and fear and that they are the source of ancestral sin. As we have become more enlightened (some may claim hell-bound) we have moved away from from such antiquated and superstitious beliefs, but unfortunately, such beliefs still have quite a hold on minds of many.

What struck me in one of the articles I read about this today was the number of outright sexual assaults and criminal sexual behaviors that are played for laughs or otherwise run off in movies. Things like rape by disguise (Revenge of the Nerds), pimping of a girl so drunk as to be helpless (Pretty in Pink), stalking behaviors (several) played as eventually "winning" the girl's heart... Several movies, when you think about it, are built on the premise of a girl having no worth except her looks... or based on a girl essentially selling herself as at least an escort to boost a geeky guy's popularity (one example is Can't Buy Me Love). How often does a TV show or movie or book glamorize a guy ignoring clear "No"s to force himself on a woman. Folks... that's RAPE. I'm not in agreement with the whole rape/fear industry out there -- but it shocked me when I started to think about how often we look at something on TV that's rape or sexual assault, and glamorize it.