Eagle Claw Locking Sets

[Ninebird8]

Chris, James Lau is the older brother of Gini and Lili Lau of the Lau Fat Mon family. I believe Lili and Gini were 18 and 16 when their father died and James was in his 20s. Again, my Ying Jow sifu, Leung Shum, was along with Shum Lock, his sihing, the elder student of Ng Wei, who was his godfather and the godson of Grandmaster Lau. I do not know if the Lau sisters actually finished the complete system or not, but it does not matter in my mind as long as this beautiful system is kept alive. On another forum,there is argument about Henry Poo Yee and Southern mantis. A few years ago Inside Kung Fu tried to start a controversy, as they always do, and tried to set the Lau branch against the Shum heritage. Luckily, that was unsuccessful as both sides are great Ying Jow and as long as the system grows and prospers, who cares? My sidei in kung fu, but sihing in Ying Jow and classmate, Joel Rodriguez has had a Ying Jow school in Atlanta for 15 years, and he is one of 7 ranked masters under Sigung Shum. Benson Lee, one of two seniors to Sifu, lives in LA and has a school in Sacramento. He has been with Sifu doing Eagle claw I believe for about 35 years.

I am glad you enjoyed it. As I have stated, I am so lucky that I learned chin na from two greats, Leung Shum and Jeff Bolt (senior of Dr. Yang Jwing MIng).

 

[chrispillertkd]

Chris, James Lau is the older brother of Gini and Lili Lau of the Lau Fat Mon family. I believe Lili and Gini were 18 and 16 when their father died and James was in his 20s.

Actually, IIRC, James Lau is Lily and Gini Lau's younger brother. This is born out by photo's on Lily Lau's website which shows Lau Fat Man's funeral. Their ages in the pictures are listed as Lily being 19, Gini being 11 and James being 8 at the time of their father's death.

As for who trained James, Gini and Lily after Lau Fat Man's death Sifu Henry Chung might know that. His father was best man at Lau Fat Man's wedding and from what I recall the families have a lot of respect for each other.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Ninebird8]

Chris, that would be cool if you could find that out. By the way, since you mention Henry Chung, we have another, ahem, small connection. One of my best friends in the arts who I have known since age 12 is John Cheng, who is now in California. His masters are Raymond Fogg, Ling Kam Wing, and I believe for awhile Henry Chung. I met Master Chung in Dallas once when he gave a demo as a guest of Raymond Fogg and Jimmy Wong. Great mantis!! His reminded me a little bit of Brendon Lai's!! As I said, my classmate Eric Hargrove is the Ying Jow historian I know best, besides my Sifu Leung Shum, but I would really like to know how old the Lau sisters were when their great father died and who they finished their eagle claw training with? At this time, the fact we have a very strong Ying Jow presence in California with the Lau sisters, Benson Lee (2nd or 3rd in line from Sigung Shum), three other NYC branch in California plus Ken Edwards, and Donald Waith in Iowa, plus of course all the ones on the East Coast, my fervant hope is the TRADITIONAL jow da cum na is never lost! Thanks Chris and I stand corrected on the Lau sibling rank...LOL!!! I have two older sisters myself so I understand!!!!

 

[chrispillertkd]

If Sifu Cheng is the man I'm thinking of I believe I've seen him demonstrate a few times at Sifu Chung's tournament in Michigan. Very impressive gentleman!

Pax,

Chris

 

[Codeboy]

Yes, my Sifu Chung and Sigong Chung are close to the Lau family. Here is a little history from Sifu's website:

http://www.chungsprayingmantis.com/sifuchung.htm

 

[Ninebird8]

Master Chung also taught Raymond Fogg, John Cheng's original teacher. Raymond learned from Master Chung, Raymond Nelson in New York, and Wah lum from Chan Pui in Florida. I also believe he picked up some from Grandmaster Lai as well but I am not sure, would have to ask John about that. Master Chung did a couple of mantis sets at Jimmy Wong's Tai chi legacy in Dallas.

 

[Victor Smith]

I just found these the last week.

The following 2 person set shows the underlying principles of Faan Tai Ying Jow Pai.Eagle Claw Fighting Principles -
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pSS169xznSA

Another Eagle Claw 2 person set, based on Nothern Chinese principles which are incorporated into Eagle Claw
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=8i0NalQ1UdU

Finally a very good video from 1985, showing IMO a representative Eagle Claw form, the Northern 2 person set, a staff set and I belive the first 10 sequences of the 108 locking form.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4a6R3UYUc

Alas I'm not a Eagle Claw styslist, I had studied Hon Kuen long ago and have had introduction to some of the principles and initial 108 locks. What Ernest Rothrock shared with me over the years, especially from being on the receiving end, helps me appreciate the depth of this system.

 

[arnisador]

Cool!

 

[Ninebird8]

If you think hung kuen is cool, have Ernie show you lin kuen!! Even longer and more comprehensive, the dictionary of Ying Jow!!

 

[Victor Smith]

Ninebird8,

I agree with you about Lin Kuen. I never asked what to study, Ernest shared Hon Kuen because he flet it would help me undestand the range of the system.

LIn Kuen's 50 rows of techniques is one of the more unreal studies I've ever seen, anywhere.

 

[Ninebird8]

I learned hung kuen but back in the day lin kuen was the last form before you learned the Ying jow drunken form, the last form of 78 that you learn in the system. Lin kuen contains basically the movements of the entire jow da cum na. My brother in Ying Jow (I am his senior in kung fu by 6 years but he is now my senior in Ying Jow and is one of 7 masters under Sigung Shum) says ideally it takes 12 and a half to 15 minutes to run properly compare to a normal length Northern form of 2 and 1/2 minutes!! Nowdays, under the new ranking system, before you had to know 30-40 forms and 50 locks for instructor level in Ying Jow, now it has been reduced from my understanding to 22 forms and 36 locks. Then, for master level it is of course much higher under the old rules. People like Joel, my sihings Benson, Cecil, Ernie, etc., took much longer to make it than today. Like everything else, things were eased as the years went by. I could not test my Shaolin students like I was tested by my Wudan master.

Ying Jow, Preying mantis, northern bak lum snake, and northern white crane are beautiful systems, but YJP, PM, and WC were and are the great chin na and locking systems, in my opinion.

 

[Nitedragon89]

PM is definetly a very intricated chin na system

 

[ngokfei]

Just found this thread.

Some correction to the lineage thing:

Lau Kai Man and Chan Tzi Ching were classmates under Lau Cheng You.

Lau Fat Man studied under Lau Kai Man primarily and then is said to have received some tutoring while in the Jing Mo under chan Tzi Ching.

Ng Wai Nung was a student of Chan Tzi Ching for 5 years. When CTZ left he futhered his training under Lau Fat Man along with 2 other Classmates and was immediately made assistant instructors.

It is true that Most of the Lau Family were very young at the time whe their father Lau Fat man Died. it was primarily Lo Yuen Gan who took over the Head Teaching position of the Lau Family Gym. Ng Wai Nung already had a school of his own but would assist during Demonstrations as well as instruction in some of the minor sets that he knew.

The Lau Family (primarily Lilly, Gini & James) are the Lineage Holders of the Lau Family.

In regards to the 108 Locking Hands, it is originally called Yue Shi San Shou. One thing to understand is that there is not one master list on what the locks or what order they are taught in.

The 108 Locks of the Shum Lineage comes from Ng Wai Nung who took time to organized them into the sets of 10. Shum Leung is the one who added the 3 count set up used before each Lock.

The same goes for the Huhng Kuen and Lin Kuen forms as well. Chan Tzi Ching was much the innovator. He added 2 additional roads to the Huhng Kuen set to make it 12 Roads. Also his versions of Lin Kuen vary and are different to what came down through the LFM Lineage.

Also the term Master in the Shum School is a recent addition from about 1994. This was used to differentiate from those who had finished the Official Ranking and those that had learned the majority of the entire system (including alot o the minor hand and weapon sets).

The Term Master=Sifu. Instructr=Gao Lin.

As for the locks, many have learned them in recent years due to the openess and availabitiy. The majority of students know 1-80. Only about 10 individuals know the 91-100. And I believe only 4 know up to 108 - which are primarily displayed as Spinal Cord Attacks.

One thing to keep in mind is that Fan Zi (Bafanshou/bashanfan) is what todays Eagleclaw is Built from and can be traced back some 10 generations.

hope this was founded informative

 

[Ninebird8]

As usual, brother Ngok Fei has the answers when it comes to lineage in this branch of Ying jow.

 

[ngokfei]

thank you

For years spent all my time mastering my fighting skills. Once I became one of "YJP's 5 tigers" I didn't know what to do with myself.

I took my Sifu's advice and began to teach but the majority of the my juniors (and some seniors) couldn't make the commitment to classes intensity. So I then opened up my own school (actually the 4th or 5th to originally do so).

Still wasn't satisified.

In order to balance it out and become a "true" Master my Sifu said it was necessary to dive into the scholarly aspects as well.

In the end i've obtained the position/status of a High Level Teacher.

"Mo Shi Tao"

Now on to the next challenge!!!!

 

[Ninebird8]

Brother Eric, did not know you attained that rank, congrats!! Are you now on the same level as Cecil, Benson, Ernie, Joel, Julio, Frank, etc? Master or instructor? Hate that you were not there in March but hope you can be for March 2009 in LA. God bless!!

 

[ngokfei]

yes its a great feeling when your sifu gives you praise on the level of skill attained. But keeps you motivated to achieve even higher learning.

Too many paper master's out there.

To be a Master of Skill then its pretty easy to demonstrate it publicly.

But to be a Master Level Teacher that only show's through your students achievements.

Funny how I see so many "masters" today but they haven't produced one advanced level student. Well thats the times we live in I guess.

 

[Ninebird8]

Absolutely Ngok.....and, since I know you I know you have great experience at that level as have I with both our common sifu and my two other teachers. You raise a good point...in the old days the belief was that if you took 5 seniors of a master, each had captured a part of him and banded together would be the total skills of the master. In fact, very hard to even get students today to go through what we went through!! By the way, wife and I are going down to Costa Rica and will see Sifu's nephew and family while down there. You should write a historical book about the style!

 

[Ninebird8]

Sifu paid me a high compliment lately when he told our brother in Atlanta that my internal skill was now at a high level,and I now had control....LOL!! Thanks to Jeff, Sifu, and Dr.Yang....LOL! All this means is to keep practicing....someday, we might have a small part of Sifu's skill!!

 

[ngokfei]

nah - for me the greatest compliment would be for a student to exceed their sifu/master's knowledge and skill.

If it takes 5 individuals to learn someone's skill, there is something wrong here. Probably he has some lousy/lazy students or just wasn't a good teacher.

Nope no intentions of writing a book. that would only give street credit to all those paper Masters I was talking about. they sure talk a good game about how good they are but when it comes to demonstrating or teaching the skill they come up pretty short. Especially when it comes to the theory, principles and philosophy of the Eagle Claw Style. You wouldn't believe how many people cut and paste this information from other styles and try to pass it off as Eagle Claw Terminology, etc. I'm not going to add fuel to the fire.

In future only the true disciples should and will be recognized. There is a plague of Video Tape Masters spreading throughout the world as it is.