Eagle Claw Locking Sets

[dmax999]

Anyone out there practice Eagle Claw and learn the locking sets?

I know the first 2, but know there are 108. Only know of one person in the US that knows all 108. Just curious if anyone else knows at least one or more, or if there are any other Eagle Claw readers here.

 

[pete]

i train in dr yang, jwing-ming's chin na which is mainly derived from shaolin white crane but includes some eagle claw variations. i found this surfing a while back and printed it out...

http://www.lilylaueagleclaw.com/eag_chinnakf.html

 

[7starmantis]

Man, I remember a seminar we did with her, she is very good at eagle claw, very good. I just remember after she would show you something she would always say, "See, hurt very much!". And she was right!

7sm

 

[dmax999]

The first two shown by your link are similar to what I know, but not quite the same. It is also a different Eagle Claw system then I know. Interesting because I never even considered a different Eagle Claw system would have similar locking sets.

I learn from a student of a student of Grandmaster Shum, the only one I know that knows all 108 sets.
http://www.yingjowpai.com/

 

[dmax999]

Found out some information about the Lily Lau Eagle Claw. It actually is supposed to be the same as what I am learning. Grandmaster Shum learned Eagle Claw from Lily Lau's father.

The rumor is also that she or her sister were never taught Eagle Claw from their father either, they were too young by the time he died. They learned it from one of Grandmaster Shum's students (name witheld due to it just being a rumor). Apparently they don't even recognize Grandmaster Shum as a legitimate teacher either, some strange fued that I have no information about.

 

[Samantha K]

Anyone out there practice Eagle Claw and learn the locking sets?

I know the first 2, but know there are 108. Only know of one person in the US that knows all 108. Just curious if anyone else knows at least one or more, or if there are any other Eagle Claw readers here.

I am brand new to this school, but I know the owner Master Rothrock knows them.

 

[arnisador]

Check out these threads also (which, I notice, appear in the Similar Threads box below, though usually those threads seem pretty irrelevant):
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16477
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9494
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1739

 

[dmax999]

Rothrock should know most of them, but I wasn't sure one way or the other. He is one of Grandmaster Shaum's top three students from what I hear. Rothrock is supposed to be really really good at the Eagle Claw forms, which is what the locking sets technically are.

Never met him personally, but I have met his wife Cynthia (the movie star).

If you can, find out if he knows all 108 or just the first 102 or some subset. I understand that the last 6 are very rarely taught to anyone.

 

[Samantha K]

Rothrock should know most of them, but I wasn't sure one way or the other. He is one of Grandmaster Shaum's top three students from what I hear. Rothrock is supposed to be really really good at the Eagle Claw forms, which is what the locking sets technically are.

Never met him personally, but I have met his wife Cynthia (the movie star).

If you can, find out if he knows all 108 or just the first 102 or some subset. I understand that the last 6 are very rarely taught to anyone.

Well, one of the little tri-fold advertisement flyers I got when I started states he knows all 108, among quite a few other things. I personally am quite excited to be training in his school.

 

[dmax999]

Good luck with it Samantha. From all that I know he is very skilled and has true lineage in Eagle Claw. My suggestions would be to work on flexibility, getting stances as low as they should be, and start doing fingertip pushups right away. It takes a long time to get into shape to do good Eagle Claw, and getting the claw strength with fingertip pushups is taking me the longest to get down.

 

[Shaolinwind]

Well, one of the little tri-fold advertisement flyers I got when I started states he knows all 108, among quite a few other things. I personally am quite excited to be training in his school.

Yup, Master Rothrock most definetely knows all 108.

 

[MingTheMerciless]

And Eagle Claw Kung Fu seem like Aikido and Jujutsu and I think that it may go well with my Wing Chun/Jun Fan/JKD trapping technique .

So do anyone know is there any Eagle Claw in Toronto ?

 

[Victor Smith]

Hi,

I've been a friend, student of Rothrock Laoshi for three decades. He is very conversant with the entire Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai and there are many locking sets in addition to the 108. BTW the first 30 of them are found in Shum Leung's "The Secrets of Eagle Claw Kung Fu - Ying Jow Pai' published by Tuttle Press in 2001, and in turn were privately published by him in 1980.

On YouTube you can find a lot of Eagle Claw video in the Shum lineage at http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=videoport&p=r

BTW the 108 locking set is much more than just locking, but includes various sparring work to set up the lock and is a part of the goal of training, if you understand the lock, you have to know how to set it up.

Different basic tools such as the Eagle Claw principles show some of the locks and how they are countered too.

The Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai is a very complete art covering a wide range of technique series.

Dozens of forms, many weapons sets, many two person sets, complete sparring practices.

Personally I started with Rothrock Laoshi as a Tai Chi students, of which I am still, and studied small portions of several other systems just to be knowledgable. He is an extremely qualified instructor.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[Ninebird8]

Howdy! I have been in Ying Jow for almost 25 years along with my two other Northern styles, Nine Birds and Long fist, as well as Southern white crane. My classmate is Joel Rodriguez, one of 6 masters under our master Leung Shum, and while I have learned alot of the system (through the first 60 or so locks of jow da cum Na) and over 30 Ying jow forms, Joel has learned all 78 forms and 105 of the 108 locks. In March 2008, we had a family gathering in NYC with Sifu and enjoyed it very much, though the people who trained when I did in the early 1980s to mid 1990s were the hard core group at 34th and 9th. Although I have trained under two other great masters, Ying Jow and Sifu are my heart.

I can put you in touch with Joel if you go to eagleclawatl.com in Atlanta.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ninebird8]

Victor, I saw your Laoshi in NYC during the family gathering and he di d not look well?! Sifu did not look well either. Your sifu knows Joel quite well as well as my seniors Cecil, Benson, Jenny, Mark, etc. Sooo...I would be your Uncle in a way and am know in the school as Texas Mike. It is an honor to meet a student of Ernie's!!

 

[Ninebird8]

One other comment: since I only got into the 60s on the locks before I started under my Shaolin master and my current master, Joel has told me that locks 103-108 are up to the individual master to figure out, then present to Sifu for his agreement or approval. From what I understand, those locks are almost a summary or a compilation of the first 103. May be wrong, but that is how it has been explained. Also, my understanding is that only Cecil, Benson, Ernie, Joel, and maybe one other Master under our sifu have over 100 locks and their sequences. If so, a very exclusive and wonderful group!!

 

[Ninebird8]

To an earlier comment about someone on here being from Dr. Yang Jwing Ming. I am fortunate in that two of my three masters are Sifu Jeff Bolt, senior student of Dr. Yang since 1973, and Sigung Leung Shum of Ying Jow Pai eagle claw. To clear up lineage hopefully once and for all, Chan Tzi Ching taught Lau Fat Mon. Lau Fat Mon, besides teaching his daughters Lily and Gini, also had a son named James who I understand learned much more than they did but has remained behind the scenes. Ng Wei was Grandmaster Lau's senior disciple and godson. Leung Shum, along with his older sihing, Lock Shum (may be incorrect on the full name here), and no relation, trained under Ng Wei and became one of his two senior students and his godson. There is an Eagle Claw historian, and classmate, Eric Hargrove who has kept much closer track of this lineage than myself. He has traced it back I believe to Fan Tzi Pai and the northern kicks being combined years ago.

As a senior under Sifu Bolt and a long time practitioner under Sigung Shum (again, my classmates were people like Joel Rodriguez and my sihings were Benson Lee, Mark Shan, Cecil Jordan, Gi, Frank Marrero,David Chin, etc.) I have had exposure to both the eagle locks and the chin na from Dr. Yang through Jeff's teachings and Dr. Yang's frequent visits to Texas in the 90s and early 2000s. One of my classmates, Kevin Boyd, is a recognized chin na instructor under both Dr. Yang and Jeff Bolt. Sooooo.....I currently have a videotape of Sigung Shum and 4 seniors doing the 108 locks and most of the 78 forms from 1988-89 and on the second half of the tape Dr. Yang doing almost 150 chin na locks slowly, medium, then fast with lead ins!! My most treasured possession, also from the late 1980s. I can tell you that both Sigung Shum and Dr. Yang, as well as my chin na Sifu Jeff Bolt, are all rather painful and disturbing in their ability to control you in gradations, especially Dr. Yang's ability to control with just your pinky finger, hence the nickname we gave him of Sifu Pinky!!

What separates both of these gentlemen in their locks, besides everything else, is the underestimated ability to use their incredible footwork to set up the locks and once applied, to employ devestating fa jing that unseats bone, muscle, and/or tendon. Footwork in chin na is always neglected and very important! After 31 years of training, I am still in awe of all three of these great masters, and the chin na both the white crane and eagle claw schools propagate are incredible (yes, I am prejudiced...LOL!). Also, all three also teach a high level of tai chi chin na that is interesting on its own, employing silk reeling, fa jing, and great rooting/sinking to employ the chin na. Sigung Shum's Wu style and Jeff's/Dr. Yang's Yang style are both great at this.

There is one great book by Sigung Shum that show the first 36 locks and many books by Dr. Yang showing too many to count. There is also a 4 part two person chin na set that my Sifu Jeff Bolt created that we learned as well as many two person sets in Ying Jow, including hop chuen and Yat Ling But.

Sorry I rattled on, but these two masters are the cream of the chin na crop to me!!! I am so lucky to have trained under both Sigung Shum and Sifu Bolt.

As far as the lineage comments above, that is to the best of my knowledge. Rumor is that Gini and Lili learned until their dad died while they were teenagers but not sure how they completed the entire Ying Jow style after that....I would ask that someone from their branch detail that for us.

 

[Victor Smith]

Ninebird,

Sorry I just noticed your reply.

Rothrock Laoshi is a friend as well as my instructor, but I am but a minor dabbler in the Chinese arts, most of my studies with him, excpet for my Yang Tai Chi and Wu TCC, were to become more knowledgable about the Chinese arts.

He has undergone the slings and arrows of outrageous fate with his health but as I understand he's stronger now, I'm sure it changes day by day.
I know he works hard to share his knowledge of Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai with his students.

He is one of the most capable and knowledgable martial artists I have trained with.

It's interesting you mention Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming, for we have another minor connection. I live in New Hampshire. 20 years ago my wife had the time to take a 6 month dual clinic with Dr. Yang both on Tai Chi and Chin Na, separately. While I've met him but am not his student, but my wife would always work me over after class asking me to grab her.

His chinna is extremely painful, but then so is Laoshi's.

I will aways respect those who can give me pain, the universal martial constant.

 

[Ninebird8]

Victor, you have no idea how honored and still in awe of the fact that two of my three teachers are top locking and chin na masters. To be able to learn the 108 locks from Sifu Shum (now Sigung of course but there are 7 masters under Sifu, and my training brother Joel Rodriguea knows all 78 forms and 104 of the 108 locks and is soon to test the other 4 with him to see if he has all of them. I know just over 30 Ying jow forms, jow da cum na, and just over 50 of the locks. I have learned from the senior of Dr. Yang, too for 12 years!!), and from the senior of Dr. Yang are gifts I cannot repay!! And, yes, between Sifu Shum, Jeff Bolt, and Dr. Yang, boy do my wrists hurt most of the time...LOL!! And, my training bro from Ying Jow hurts too. Benson Lee has recently helped my Shaolin bro find a job in hotel Management.

Victor, it was good to finally see Ernie and all of them in NYC in March. I love the fact our shirts from that event say, "Ying Jow Family Gathering!" I love that!

It is good to hear he is doing better.

Maybe we can meet some day.

God bless.

 

[chrispillertkd]

To an earlier comment about someone on here being from Dr. Yang Jwing Ming. I am fortunate in that two of my three masters are Sifu Jeff Bolt, senior student of Dr. Yang since 1973, and Sigung Leung Shum of Ying Jow Pai eagle claw. To clear up lineage hopefully once and for all, Chan Tzi Ching taught Lau Fat Mon. Lau Fat Mon, besides teaching his daughters Lily and Gini, also had a son named James who I understand learned much more than they did but has remained behind the scenes.

I can't speak to any of the lineage debates in this thread but what I will say is that I had the pleasure of taking a seminar from James Lau back in the 1990's at Sifu Henry Chung's School of Praying Mantis. He is phenomenal. I no longer train in CMA (I did Praying Mantis for a brief time, about a year) but have been in MA's for 22 years now and have seen very few people as proficient as he was. I remember having a partner that was quite a bit larger than I am and James Lau was throwing this guy around like it was nothing when he helped me apply a technique I was having trouble with.

Again, the man was simply amazing.

Pax,

Chris