interesting view about MA's

[mantis]

One of my respected instructors said styles are facades to 'fighting'. We all learn styles but we only use them to 'fight'. Therefore it does not matter if you practice mantis, or judo or anything else. this is only what your style looks like but the bottom line is we all go to classes to learn 'fighting'.
it's like a house with many windows. One window may look like kung fu, another looks like kali but they all abstract the core with is, again, fighting.

he gave an example of mantis, eagle, and say aikido. he said the concept that they all share is grappling, applying circles to deflect energy and so on, the only difference is using what looks like an eagle claw, or a mantis hook!

From this we should realize that if we go to a class that does not teach hands-on fighting then that class could be considered less useful or completely useless.

any comments on this?
why would you NOT agree with this?

 

[Kacey]

One of my respected instructors said styles are facades to 'fighting'. We all learn styles but we only use them to 'fight'. Therefore it does not matter if you practice mantis, or judo or anything else. this is only what your style looks like but the bottom line is we all go to classes to learn 'fighting'.
it's like a house with many windows. One window may look like kung fu, another looks like kali but they all abstract the core with is, again, fighting.

he gave an example of mantis, eagle, and say aikido. he said the concept that they all share is grappling, applying circles to deflect energy and so on, the only difference is using what looks like an eagle claw, or a mantis hook!

From this we should realize that if we go to a class that does not teach hands-on fighting then that class could be considered less useful or completely useless.

any comments on this?
why would you NOT agree with this?

I agree with parts and I disagree with parts. I agree with the analogy of the house (and I rather like it); I disagree that the only reason anyone attends MA class is to learn to fight. Yes, I did learn to fight by taking TKD classes - but as far as my interest was concerned, learning to fight was something that came along with the physical and mental disciplines that caused me to fall in love with TKD after I was brought, reluctantly at the time, by another person. It was never my goal to learn to fight - it was something I had to do to continue to improve the parts of the art that most intrigued me. Do some people start MAs to learn to fight? Certainly. Do some people learn for other reasons? Also certainly. There are benefits to every style - whether it is a fighting style or not - and fighting styles are not the correct choice for every person.

 

[mantis]

I agree with parts and I disagree with parts. I agree with the analogy of the house (and I rather like it); I disagree that the only reason anyone attends MA class is to learn to fight. Yes, I did learn to fight by taking TKD classes - but as far as my interest was concerned, learning to fight was something that came along with the physical and mental disciplines that caused me to fall in love with TKD after I was brought, reluctantly at the time, by another person. It was never my goal to learn to fight - it was something I had to do to continue to improve the parts of the art that most intrigued me. Do some people start MAs to learn to fight? Certainly. Do some people learn for other reasons? Also certainly. There are benefits to every style - whether it is a fighting style or not - and fighting styles are not the correct choice for every person.

yeah absolutely you are right. I meant to refer to the general case that usually martial arts are intended to learn fighting. or at least in the traditional meaning of martial arts. Sure you may have other purposes behind your pursuit of martial arts knowledge. You're right

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I like the house analogy a lot. My instructor uses the wheel and spokes one, with the outer wheel representing the different arts and the hub that the spokes lead too as the "truth" in fighting.

As for MA just being for fighting, I'd have to disagree with that. A lot of esoteric arts out there that people receive lots of benefits from that really don't have a lot if any combat applications.

Interesting view though,

JeffJ

 

[stickarts]

Some good analogies!
One interesting thing i have noticed is that over a 13 year period (that my school has been established), I review the registration forms of every new student, and many do not even indicate self defense as a reason for joining!
Quite common is to improve self esteem, discipline, and fitness.
I have a small percentage of students who have actually been attacked and are strictly into it for the fighting.
I have a woman now who was attacked and never wants to feel like a victim again. This is not only preparing her better for the future, but by changing the meaning of what has happened to her ( being attacked will cause her to become stronger than ever before) it is self empowering.

 

[Robert Lee]

In a way you are right. M/A is about learning tro fight. But as youlearn to fight you also learn how not to fight. Now most should strive to become as good as they can in learning the how of fighting. That way they can push there limits and by doing that become somewaht a better person. Many get in the M/A for learning how to fight. But they do not grow so well towards that as a fighter has to not only be able to apply what they have learned but be willing to use it if they must. That is heart for fighting many lack there to do so. Sure You find the more you train to have to fight the less you will ever fight. Except for those in the ring. But you must put the effert of hard training to achive stabilty in your M/A and in your life.
​

 

[mantis]

again for all other reasons this analogy, I claim, still holds true. The styles are still just facades. But the goal is the same regardless what martial arts you study.

 

[Carol]

again for all other reasons this analogy, I claim, still holds true. The styles are still just facades. But the goal is the same regardless what martial arts you study.

Mantis, thank you so much for sharing that insight of your instructor. What a great topic!

Your instructor makes a lot of sense to me. When I joined my school, I was a student like the ones that Stickarts has seen. I didn't put SD as one of my reasons for joining, either. But, I thought it was a given that I would be learning it. But now I'm training, I'm realizing what fighting means. And there is so much to it.

I'm going from a person that never wanted to be a fighter, to someone that realizes that I am a fighter, just not a very good one. Its humbling to be one, as there is much to live up to by being a fighter. There is much to struggle with by recognizing my lack of proficiency. But, that is why I am a fighter. Because I seek to be a better fighter.

 

[MA-Caver]

Herbert George Wells is credited with the phrase: "The first man to raise a fist, is the first one to run out of ideas."
But then Wells was reputed to be a paficist which I am not. But that statement does have credience and weight in my book.
I began MA as a means of SD because I was the token whipping boy at my grade, jr. high and high school(s) and qutie simply got sick and tired of it all. Time, circumstances, and mainly money (or lack thereof) didn't allow me to attend a certified MA school so I learned when and where-ever I could from whomever I could. I've been fortunate that those whom I've learned my (present) skills were indeed true MA-ist and taught me legitimate techniques. But my inital goal is still the same; to become a better fighter than I was.

Yet again fortune smiled upon me in that I was able to also learn to see the beauty of MA and MA-philosophy. To realize the melding of mind, body and spirit into one essence which is whom I am through the use and teachings of MA.
I think Bruce Lee said it best in his "last interview"

"Martial arts has a very, very deep meaning as far as my life is concerned because as an actor, as a martial artist, as a human being; all these I have learned from Martial Arts. To me, ok, to me martial arts means honestly expressing yourself. I mean it's easy, for me to put on a show and act cocky, but to express one's self honestly, not lying to myself, to express myself honestly... that my friend is the ultimate being."

As one who has spent years searching (and still searches) for my "true-self" this resonates deeply with me. Or it has at least helped me put definition to what I have been doing all these years (internally). I don't think anyone ever completely finishes their search for themselves until the moment of death. Though I know much more about myself today than I have when I was younger, my self-searching has revealed that I am (like many others here) an eternal student of everything that I expose myself to. Including martial arts.

The first one to run out of ideas... yeah, I'll always try to find ways out of "it" without raising my fists, but I'll continue to learn to be the best fighter that I can be to prevent myself from running out of ideas.