Eagle Claw Locking Sets

[Ninebird8]

I humbly disagree, in that should your goal really be to surpass or supplant your master's skill rather than master yourself? I totally agree with you though about the paper masters, but that is a result of the softening of the type of training regimens those of us who have been in the CMA over 25-30 years went through with our teachers. When I was at the family gathering in March, it was obvious who had trained the old way and who had not, especially in the stancework, the fa jing, the application, and the sparring. Too, most people will not stay long enough to learn an intricate style and its hidden secrets.

I understand your sentiment not to write a book, but I suggest it only because the history should not be lost! Though great disciples like Cecil Jordan, Benson Lee, Ernie Rothrock, Joel Rodriguez, Julio Perez, Eric Cintron, Gi, Mark Shou, Gary Mark, Donald Walth, Delroy Miller, Pat Batista, etc. will keep it alive and growing!!

 

[ngokfei]

What do you mean by mastering yourself? That is pretty vague. There are many things to attempt at mastering in the course of one's life time.

If you aren't able to Master your teacher's skill how do you ever plan to expand your knowledge?

I see you mention the term Disciples. If we were to acquate this title to anyone in the school it would only be to those individuals that had finished the ranking requirements (ie: obtaining a White Sash and the Sifu Title).
Not all of those you listed have achieved this.

In Traditional terms to become a disicple one would have to undergo the Bai Si ceremony, which Sifu doesn't believe in.

Sifu = Master and Sigung = Grandmaster, thats about it.

 

[Ninebird8]

I just spent the past week in Costa Rica with Sifu's nephew and had some very good discussions. During that time, Thomas Torres sent an email out to the eagle claw masters and Sifu about whether he should honor a request from one of his students to go through that ceremony and what purpose would it serve in Ying Jow. I would be very interested in the feedback of the seniors on this. Ngok Fei, from your experience studying Ying Jow history, was this ceremony ever actually performed in the style?

Thanks!

 

[ngokfei]

Mike

I think we've taken away from the threads topic already.

Best to send me your thoughts through PM/E-mail.

 

[Ninebird8]

Thanks Brother. Always an education! Always learn more about the style from ya.

 

[Ninebird8]

Just to let everyone know: March 27-29 in Los Angeles at the Hilton Glendale will be the yearly Ying Jow gathering to celebrate Sigung Leung Shum's birthday. In addition, it is his 35th anniversary teaching in this country. We are all looking forward to honoring this great man again.

 

[Nitedragon89]

Hey ninebird I found there is a eagle claw school in rancho santa marguerita near me have you ever heard of sifu pat dibattista

 

[Ninebird8]

Sorry not to get back to you sooner. Yes, Pat is a legitimate and ranked Master/Instructor under Leung Shum and his skills are very good. He is one of about 6 ranked Ng Wei branch (Leung Shum's teacher and godfather) teachers of Ying jow out in California. Look him up if he is still teaching out there.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I know very little of Eagle claw. Only of what I have read and heard.

But doesn't Eagle claw also have the ability to rip flesh with its talons?

Also how do you guys train or develop fa jin?

 

[Ninebird8]

Yoshi, Sholom alecheim, baruch atah adonay! I will write an answer to types of training the hands from both my Ying Jow master and my Wudan Nine bird master (one of the birds is Shaolin eagle claw, a little different than Ying jow) tomorrow when I am back in the saddle on my own computer. Good Yom Tov, Happy Hannukah!

 

[Nitedragon89]

Yes he is located in rsm like almost next to me but tis kind of expensive, but I would like to do it, then we would be kung fu brothers. heh

Sorry not to get back to you sooner. Yes, Pat is a legitimate and ranked Master/Instructor under Leung Shum and his skills are very good. He is one of about 6 ranked Ng Wei branch (Leung Shum's teacher and godfather) teachers of Ying jow out in California. Look him up if he is still teaching out there.

 

[Victor Smith]

Nightdragon,

Pat is a good guy I've known him since he was a grasshopper studying under Ernest Rothrock. If you get the chance tell him Victor Smith send his regards.

 

[Ninebird8]

To answer Yoshi's inquiry on the claw training, I will answer it in two parts, one part Ying Jow and one part Shaolin eagle, under two of my three masters:

In Ying Jow:

1) We used the 5 finger pull in device, with rings at the end, metal springs at both ends, and use to pull in until we almost made a fist, 100-200 times each hand, several sets.
2) One hundred reps each hand of circle claw, hanging claw, and yin/yang claw, with the yin/yang claw usually done with a Ying Jow front kick in a certain turn and grasp drill. This technique is my brother's Joel Rodriguez favorite kick, and one he is known for, along with his Ying Jow sweeps.
3) Take plastic or glass water bottles of different weight, fill them with water, sand, buckshot, etc, and grasp the tops with your five fingers and hold the bottles in increasing times, then move in stance with the arms extended either out or forward.
4) Using the wooden dummy, grasp and pull the arms many times while turning the waist or sinking the root.
5) Perform the "Ten Punches," various sequence of stances with certain claws and punches.
6) Different drills where one would have a partner, and with stance movements do different claws to the arms of your partner, and then alternate with the partner doing the same.
7) Two person sets.
8) Joel and I use to get objects, either soft or hard, step off certain distances, and then throw the object where the other person had to catch it quickly out of the air with the Ying jow claws. Got pretty good after getting hit in the face or chest several times....LOL!
9) Sitting in mabu for up to 15-30 minutes with arms extended out, hands with fingers extended, while Sifu or seniors came by and checked to ensure sending chi through finger tips for straight hand strikes as well as claws. Good for splashing hands techniques, our senior Cecil Jordan to this day extraordinary with this!!

These were some of the drills we did to toughen our claw and locking capabilities. There are others, but loathe to mention them since they can be harmful without supervision/instruction of Sifu or someone like Joel, Cecil, Benson, Gi, Mark, etc.

In Wudan Shaolin Nine Bird, Shaolin Eagle:

1) In Shaolin eagle, the hand training is usually with the index finger, middle finger, and thumb or "Southern," along with the typical Ying Jow for the actual pull in or locking, while the other is used for striking.
2) Stripping tree bark with bare fingers, usually oak or other tough bark trees.
3) Pulling grass or mud while closing the fingers digging down up to 2-3 feet with both hands, alternatively.
4) Sitting in mabu horse stance with a partner, grasping each other's claw fingers, then pulling each other, maintaining the horse stance, and resisting allowing the fingers to be pried open.
5) Striking different surfaces with the three fingers, then pulling in tree branches with the locking claw. Also, using the yin/yang claw and fa jing, breaking branches in half with the upward and downward pressure of the hand movements.
6) Having progressively heavier bean bags with buckshot thrown at full speed at you and grasping them from the air.
7) Fingertip push-ups progressively from five fingers down to two fingers, while either supporting yourself or with weight on your back until you could support body weight of your partner. Pray your partner weighed 150 pounds like you did....LOL!!! No such luck!!!!
8) Ripping shirts, gis, etc. off partners, or when that got too expensive, using a dummy with clothes on to do the same. Got pretty expensive for awhile.

Yoshi, these are some of the drills I learned in two of my three schools. I will say that at age 50, after all these years, the other essential elements are twofold: make sure a legit ranked Ying jow or eagle instructor/master guides you on this training, and stock up on plenty of dit da jow! If you are in California, between Pat B., Ken Edwards, Delroy Miller (if you can learn his great scissor take downs from Ying Jow, and his other Ying Jow take down techniques, great back in the day!) and of course Benson Lee, one of our two seniors currently in Glendale (and learn his body connectivity to his claws!).

I hope all of this helps, but like I said, please do all of this under one of the above if you are in California as otherwise you will bring harm to yourself! Happy New Year to everyone!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

hEY nINE BIRD...Yahuwah Barak Atah nine bird. Toda for the blessing. Todah Rabah. My yom has been tob thus far.I am rejoiced with your energy...very knowledgeable...

Yoshi, Sholom alecheim, baruch atah adonay! I will write an answer to types of training the hands from both my Ying Jow master and my Wudan Nine bird master (one of the birds is Shaolin eagle claw, a little different than Ying jow) tomorrow when I am back in the saddle on my own computer. Good Yom Tov, Happy Hannukah!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Excellent Post...what were some of methods you hate to mention when you said "but loathe to mention them since they can be harmful without supervision/instruction of Sifu or someone like Joel, Cecil, Benson, Gi, Mark, etc. "

I love your post...some of your drills like Raking or scraping tree bark off a tree is something my Sifu instructed. Also the Jars we have to hold...I actually got some pastic two litter bottles filled with water right now at the house...i need to get some new bricks...we use bricks grip them with the finger tips and rotate our arms from our center to either side of us...like going in and out...also finger push ups. Finger strikes on striking bag...with sand,iron shots or beans. Also bucket filled with rice,sand,or steel shots you stab with your hand and grip the steel shots and squeeze an then release. Also we use wrist rollers with a weight...an we also do some other things too...

Its very interesting...some of the methods you told me I do not do but i am aware of them...I dont do them because my Sifu didn't tell me i had to...i don't think its apart of curriculm either way...But I asked about eagle claw because i have been noticing aspects of eagle claw with in the wing chun system...thats why i asked!

oh dit da jow...got some at home...lol...my Sihing has a nice jar of Dit Da Jow he made...excellent recipe. We also had to do horse stance or mabu too. I hated those days...but great for the chi...

To answer Yoshi's inquiry on the claw training, I will answer it in two parts, one part Ying Jow and one part Shaolin eagle, under two of my three masters:

In Ying Jow:

1) We used the 5 finger pull in device, with rings at the end, metal springs at both ends, and use to pull in until we almost made a fist, 100-200 times each hand, several sets.
2) One hundred reps each hand of circle claw, hanging claw, and yin/yang claw, with the yin/yang claw usually done with a Ying Jow front kick in a certain turn and grasp drill. This technique is my brother's Joel Rodriguez favorite kick, and one he is known for, along with his Ying Jow sweeps.
3) Take plastic or glass water bottles of different weight, fill them with water, sand, buckshot, etc, and grasp the tops with your five fingers and hold the bottles in increasing times, then move in stance with the arms extended either out or forward.
4) Using the wooden dummy, grasp and pull the arms many times while turning the waist or sinking the root.
5) Perform the "Ten Punches," various sequence of stances with certain claws and punches.
6) Different drills where one would have a partner, and with stance movements do different claws to the arms of your partner, and then alternate with the partner doing the same.
7) Two person sets.
8) Joel and I use to get objects, either soft or hard, step off certain distances, and then throw the object where the other person had to catch it quickly out of the air with the Ying jow claws. Got pretty good after getting hit in the face or chest several times....LOL!
9) Sitting in mabu for up to 15-30 minutes with arms extended out, hands with fingers extended, while Sifu or seniors came by and checked to ensure sending chi through finger tips for straight hand strikes as well as claws. Good for splashing hands techniques, our senior Cecil Jordan to this day extraordinary with this!!

These were some of the drills we did to toughen our claw and locking capabilities. There are others, but loathe to mention them since they can be harmful without supervision/instruction of Sifu or someone like Joel, Cecil, Benson, Gi, Mark, etc.

In Wudan Shaolin Nine Bird, Shaolin Eagle:

1) In Shaolin eagle, the hand training is usually with the index finger, middle finger, and thumb or "Southern," along with the typical Ying Jow for the actual pull in or locking, while the other is used for striking.
2) Stripping tree bark with bare fingers, usually oak or other tough bark trees.
3) Pulling grass or mud while closing the fingers digging down up to 2-3 feet with both hands, alternatively.
4) Sitting in mabu horse stance with a partner, grasping each other's claw fingers, then pulling each other, maintaining the horse stance, and resisting allowing the fingers to be pried open.
5) Striking different surfaces with the three fingers, then pulling in tree branches with the locking claw. Also, using the yin/yang claw and fa jing, breaking branches in half with the upward and downward pressure of the hand movements.
6) Having progressively heavier bean bags with buckshot thrown at full speed at you and grasping them from the air.
7) Fingertip push-ups progressively from five fingers down to two fingers, while either supporting yourself or with weight on your back until you could support body weight of your partner. Pray your partner weighed 150 pounds like you did....LOL!!! No such luck!!!!
8) Ripping shirts, gis, etc. off partners, or when that got too expensive, using a dummy with clothes on to do the same. Got pretty expensive for awhile.

Yoshi, these are some of the drills I learned in two of my three schools. I will say that at age 50, after all these years, the other essential elements are twofold: make sure a legit ranked Ying jow or eagle instructor/master guides you on this training, and stock up on plenty of dit da jow! If you are in California, between Pat B., Ken Edwards, Delroy Miller (if you can learn his great scissor take downs from Ying Jow, and his other Ying Jow take down techniques, great back in the day!) and of course Benson Lee, one of our two seniors currently in Glendale (and learn his body connectivity to his claws!).

I hope all of this helps, but like I said, please do all of this under one of the above if you are in California as otherwise you will bring harm to yourself! Happy New Year to everyone!

 

[ngokfei]

There are many ways to train the Claw but only a few to train its usage.

Grandmaster Shum had us focus on specific gung exercises but emphasizes live action with partners.

If you've got time to do it all then great but if you don't then focus on partner drills.

Mike: a slight correction: Pat is Benson's student not Sifu's.

 

[Victor Smith]

Hi Ninebird,

I talked to Ernest recently and realize he's been having a difficult time. I hope it passes soon and he's back to his old self.

We all age and must deal with those ramifications, and find a way to fit as much of our training in as possible.

Thanks for the notes.

 

[Ninebird8]

Ngok Fei thank you for the correction! Victor, I understand about Ernie....sometimes I have to do special qi gong exercises to help with my Chron's when it acts up, since it adversely affects the joints like any other inflammation disease. That is when I am glad my tai chi kicks in, LOL! Jeff Bolt once said to us once you pass 50, teach kung fu, practice tai chi....LOL!!

 

[Ninebird8]

This past weekend we celebrated the 35th anniversary of teaching and the 74th birthday of one of my three masters, and the kindest soul who can kill you I have ever known, my second father Shum Leung in LA. Many of us flew into LA and I stayed with my wife and my training brother Joel Rodriguez, as we toasted our Sifu, demonstrated for him and his wife, told him how much we loved him, and ensured later he and Simo went to SF for vacation with plenty of money in their pocket! Since this is an eagle claw thread, I thought it appropriate to speak for all of his masters, instructors, students, grand students, and great grand students, when I say Sifu we love you, we thank you, and the gifts you have bestowed upon us outweigh anything we could every repay you. Thank you Sifu Shum (Sigung an Si Tai gung depending upon your generation) for all you have done for us over the last 35 years! It was a great time had by all and the smile on your face said it all. To all, honor your teachers while they are still alive and can appreciate and receive it! Let them know it was worth their sacrifice and pain to teach all of us! With honor, love, and respect Sifu!!