Drunken Fist Questions/Help

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ilhe4e12345

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I don't kow anything about Sifu Zhao. What is the focus of his teaching? Is he teaching a traditional system, or Modern Wushu?

If he is teaching something traditional, then I suspect the drunken would be a component of that system. He may take you as a student, but you may need to train the full system and would not learn any drunken material until he feels you are ready. That might be years. Just wanted to prepare you for the possibility.

If he is teaching Modern Wushu, then the drunken material would be of the Modern Wushu variety, which means it's meant more for competition and performance and not really for real fighting. Just wanted to also prepare you for that possibility.

I'm at work right now and am unable to view videos, so I cannot view the one posted above.


i sent an email asking more information. I fully respect Wushu practitioners but i want to learn Zui Quan from more of a self defense/traditional sense. i know its not as affective as most styles and its more showy but honestly i can see in a real life situation that it might be extremely advantagious. Im not saying against another well trained martial artisit, as they would see it and know what to expect but in real life situations the random footwork and movements could def be a better "surprise" tactic. Then again i dont really know, this is why i want to look into learning it. Everyone that i have seen talk about it a lot of times they say how "useless" it is accept for show...but....i still want to learn it, nothing wrong with that right? :) lol
 

Flying Crane

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i sent an email asking more information. I fully respect Wushu practitioners but i want to learn Zui Quan from more of a self defense/traditional sense. i know its not as affective as most styles and its more showy but honestly i can see in a real life situation that it might be extremely advantagious. Im not saying against another well trained martial artisit, as they would see it and know what to expect but in real life situations the random footwork and movements could def be a better "surprise" tactic. Then again i dont really know, this is why i want to look into learning it. Everyone that i have seen talk about it a lot of times they say how "useless" it is accept for show...but....i still want to learn it, nothing wrong with that right? :) lol


I don't know if it's any more or any less effective than any other method. It is a specific approach that teaches certain skills. If the student learns to use those skills appropriately, it could be extremely effective. Otherwise it might be useless.

I have no direct experience with drunken boxing. I will make a couple more comments, tho. If you envision drunken boxing in self defense as staggering around and weaving back and forth like a drunkard, and doing those backbends and hand postures like Jackie Chan in Drunken Master, then no I do not believe that is effective application of drunken boxing.

However, if you use the element of surprise, and learn to apply technique from unusual positionings, even when you appear to be in a compromised or vulnerable position, then it could be quite effective and nobody will "know what's coming", not even another experienced martial artist.

I think a lot of people have some serious misunderstandings about how Chinese martial arts tend to work. I'll use my own training as an example. I train in Tibetan White Crane system. This is a mimetic system based on observations of the Crane. I've done some serious reading about the bird, and there are some remarkable descriptions written by ornithologists and conservation biologists, people who have zero connection to martial arts. They have described crane behavior that is remarkably similar to movements and strategies that are found directly in our forms. What I'm saying is: the system was clearly inspired by direct observations of cranes, as verified by independent descriptions written by people with no connection to the art. Many of the movements that we practice are directly connected to observable crane behavior. The system was not simply "made up" based on what someone "imagined" a crane might do.

However, when we fight, we do not use these "crane" movements in a direct and obvious way. The real goal of white crane is to teach you how to fully engage the entire body to power every technique that you do. Those crane movements that we practice are designed to give you that skill, and those movements are simply a training vehicle to teach you to do so.

When it comes to actually using your technique, we strive to have no recognizeable form at all. We do not try to "fight like a crane". Rather, we fight with full body engagement, which makes our techniques land with the destructive power of an eight-pound maul. But it no longer looks like a crane. The training method has taught us to do this, so we can then drop the "form" of the technique and deliver the goods from any position, in any way we wish. This concept is a little abstract, but hopefully it makes sense to you.

Likewise, I think Drunken Boxing does not teach you to actually stagger and fall and roll and bend up like a pretzel as a way of fighting. Rather, the practice of those movements, when properly understood, teaches you to deliver techniques with a certain kind of power, in a certain unexpected way. When you actually fight with it, you don't look like you are drunk.

Make sense?
 
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ilhe4e12345

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I don't know if it's any more or any less effective than any other method. It is a specific approach that teaches certain skills. If the student learns to use those skills appropriately, it could be extremely effective. Otherwise it might be useless.

I have no direct experience with drunken boxing. I will make a couple more comments, tho. If you envision drunken boxing in self defense as staggering around and weaving back and forth like a drunkard, and doing those backbends and hand postures like Jackie Chan in Drunken Master, then no I do not believe that is effective application of drunken boxing.

However, if you use the element of surprise, and learn to apply technique from unusual positionings, even when you appear to be in a compromised or vulnerable position, then it could be quite effective and nobody will "know what's coming", not even another experienced martial artist.

I think a lot of people have some serious misunderstandings about how Chinese martial arts tend to work. I'll use my own training as an example. I train in Tibetan White Crane system. This is a mimetic system based on observations of the Crane. I've done some serious reading about the bird, and there are some remarkable descriptions written by ornithologists and conservation biologists, people who have zero connection to martial arts. They have described crane behavior that is remarkably similar to movements and strategies that are found directly in our forms. What I'm saying is: the system was clearly inspired by direct observations of cranes, as verified by independent descriptions written by people with no connection to the art. Many of the movements that we practice are directly connected to observable crane behavior. The system was not simply "made up" based on what someone "imagined" a crane might do.

However, when we fight, we do not use these "crane" movements in a direct and obvious way. The real goal of white crane is to teach you how to fully engage the entire body to power every technique that you do. Those crane movements that we practice are designed to give you that skill, and those movements are simply a training vehicle to teach you to do so.

When it comes to actually using your technique, we strive to have no recognizeable form at all. We do not try to "fight like a crane". Rather, we fight with full body engagement, which makes our techniques land with the destructive power of an eight-pound maul. But it no longer looks like a crane. The training method has taught us to do this, so we can then drop the "form" of the technique and deliver the goods from any position, in any way we wish. This concept is a little abstract, but hopefully it makes sense to you.

Likewise, I think Drunken Boxing does not teach you to actually stagger and fall and roll and bend up like a pretzel as a way of fighting. Rather, the practice of those movements, when properly understood, teaches you to deliver techniques with a certain kind of power, in a certain unexpected way. When you actually fight with it, you don't look like you are drunk.

Make sense?

it makes perfect sense and thats one of the reasons why i want to learn it. When i see certain styles shown in movies of course my first reaction is "omg thats amazing". personally i love the movie Drunken Master, but i also understand real life. i know that it is a MOVIE and that a real life fight does not play out like that, and of course within a movie the moves, forms and styles are all over done to make it more entertaining. I know this, i have been in many fights (use to be a bouncer at a strip club for along time) and let me tell you, im glad i took up martial arts. It has taught me a lot about real life fighting and what to do in certain situations so i totally understand that there arent "flashy" back flips and things in a street fight.

As for the understanding of the style, i dont walk around and day dream about fights, i want to learn becuase its interesting, its fun and a great history behind them and a lot of fun. You are correct and if taught by the right person and in the correct way it could be a great tool in a self defense situation. I just always hear how "useless" it is in a fight but yet i can see where it would be great just becuase its something out of the ordinary. Oh well, lets hope the place in Jersey is tradtional way of teaching instead of just for competition...:D
 

fangjian

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Oh well, lets hope the place in Jersey is tradtional way of teaching instead of just for competition...:D

I don't think it will be exactly what you are looking for. But I don't think you will be disappointed with what Zhao Changjun has to offer either. Good luck
 
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ilhe4e12345

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I don't think it will be exactly what you are looking for. But I don't think you will be disappointed with what Zhao Changjun has to offer either. Good luck


i dont think i will either, but i look forward to hearing from them. They dont have any private classes available for the next 2 months on weekends so ill have to wait awhile before i can even consider starting something like this, so it gives me time to research and talk to them a little more before i get myself into it. Im excited either way becuase it will give me a chance to talk to some who actually knows the art...and that to me is worth it
 

fangjian

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i dont think i will either, but i look forward to hearing from them. They dont have any private classes available for the next 2 months on weekends so ill have to wait awhile before i can even consider starting something like this, so it gives me time to research and talk to them a little more before i get myself into it. Im excited either way becuase it will give me a chance to talk to some who actually knows the art...and that to me is worth it

Two months is a good amount of time to get ready as well. Zui Quan is one of those styles that everybody wants to learn. It's also one of those styles that once they start learning, it's not so fun anymore. hehehe. It's very demanding. So start working your endurance and flexibility, so you get the most out of it when you see Master Zhao.
 

Flying Crane

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I just always hear how "useless" it is in a fight...

I've not heard that, but honestly I've not heard much at all about it. I think that outside Modern Wushu, very few people do it and it doesn't get a lot of attention.

I did see a youtube video of a match where a drunken style guy got beat up by an MMA guy. Of course the drunken style guy was staggering around, pretending to be drunk, and that sort of reinforces my prior points.
 
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ilhe4e12345

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Two months is a good amount of time to get ready as well. Zui Quan is one of those styles that everybody wants to learn. It's also one of those styles that once they start learning, it's not so fun anymore. hehehe. It's very demanding. So start working your endurance and flexibility, so you get the most out of it when you see Master Zhao.


oh believe me i am and hopefully by then my strained hamstring will be better and i can really push myself. i have been pretty much spending days after work standing in horse for as long as possible, while watching tv, talking on the phone...lol as a amatter of fact during a conference call i was doing it at my desk and someone walked by and called me grasshopper...lol.....

as for the flexibility i have been doing a lot of yoga since i hurt my leg i cant go to the gym much anymore and i wanted to keep myself active so i do a lot of yoga during the morning when i wake up....so flexibility hopefully will be in top shape for this
 

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