Does your CMA have Stick/Push hands?

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,400
Reaction score
3,640
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Wing Chun has it's famous chi-sau, or "sticking hands" training, Taijiquan has tui-shou or "pushing hands"... These kinds or energy and sensitiviy drills have their equivalent in some other non-Chinese arts as well. But the focus on flow and chi is especially characteristic of Chinese systems. So my question is, does your CMA have something similar? And if so, how does it work?
 

pete

Master Black Belt
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Messages
1,003
Reaction score
32
Location
Long Island, New York
Baguazhang has Rou Shou (or 'soft hands') where two participants stick at the forearms while circling there arms in spirals and coiling patterns. This is done while walking. We stick at the forearms to keep contact and follow our opponent, keeping our hands free to Strike (like chi sao) or Uproot (like tui shou).
 

oxy

Blue Belt
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
258
Reaction score
5
Apparently, LHBF has its own version of push hands, but I'm suspicious as to its originality in LHBF.

LHBF sensitivity exercises seem to center more around the wooden ball exercise. It's like push hands, but the aim is to keep the ball on the wooden platform while trying to spin it in various directions.

My teacher himself was taught with what seemed to be an ad hoc exercise. The goal is to use the palms (and force generated from the waist) to flatten out a large piece of crumpled calligraphy paper without tearing it. It's like a wax on wax off kind of thing.

In terms of sticking to an opponent, LHBF doesn't place that much emphasis on it. The reasoning behind it is that if you stick to them so that you can listen to them, they can equally listen to you. So any contact should be very short and should either quickly flow to a strike or a grapple or just let go of the contact. I think it's due to this that most LHBF arm movements are up and down to avoid as little contact as needed.

However, during these past year and a bit, I've found that the heavy emphasis on "Intention" in LHBF makes it seem as though you are sticking to an opponent even if there's no physical contact. So when there is contact, the opponent feels like you've been sticking to them the whole time due to their inability to get a strike in. Choi Wai Lun's 12 Animals videos shows this and it's unfortunate that the video repository I found no longer seems to be operational.

LHBF, in its vertical arm movements, have a lot of radial twisting of the forearms which serves to disconnect any attempt to stick to the arms. The twisting repulses the opponents arm for a moment which opens up a chance to grapple or tie up due to the "mental sticking" that LHBF seems to develop.
 

Nitedragon89

Orange Belt
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
64
Reaction score
0
Location
Mission Viejo
7 star mantis also has chi sao sticky hands but differs from wing chun because we aim to always grab and pluck before we strike.
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,524
Reaction score
9,779
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
I honestly don't know one that doesn't have some version of it.

What clfsean said

Push hands, Tuishou, chi-sau, sticking hands whatever you want to call it.

Sanda has it, Xingyi has it, bagua has it, taiji has it, Wing Chun has it yiquan has it , just about all CMA styles have some version of it.
 

ChukaSifu2

Yellow Belt
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
42
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicagoland
We use chi sau(sticky hands) in Chuka SPM. We use it to read opponents pressures and accelerate or redirect(change angles) of those pressures to find or make open gates.
 
OP
G

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,400
Reaction score
3,640
Location
Phoenix, AZ
What clfsean said

Push hands, Tuishou, chi-sau, sticking hands whatever you want to call it.

Sanda has it, Xingyi has it, bagua has it, taiji has it, Wing Chun has it yiquan has it , just about all CMA styles have some version of it.

Noted. Perhaps a better question would be "How central is this (energy-hands exercise) to your training?" Certainly, it seems more emphasized in the softer, close fighting systems than in the longer range styles and the very hard styles. I haven't heard about such training in Northern Long Fist, or systems like Hung Gar and Choy Lay Fut. Of course, there's a lot I haven't heard about. That's why I'm posting this!
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,524
Reaction score
9,779
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Noted. Perhaps a better question would be "How central is this (energy-hands exercise) to your training?" Certainly, it seems more emphasized in the softer, close fighting systems than in the longer range styles and the very hard styles. I haven't heard about such training in Northern Long Fist, or systems like Hung Gar and Choy Lay Fut. Of course, there's a lot I haven't heard about. That's why I'm posting this!

The only system that could be considered a hard CMA style that I have enough experience with to answer would be, I guess, Police/Military Sanda and it is puts a lot of emphasis on Tuishou.

My Long Fist experience was only forms and pretty much contemporary Wushu so I have no idea what the emphasis is on tuishou in Long Fist.


EDIT

I also saw something very similar in a Combat Hapkido school once (not CMA of course) and of course in a JKD school.
 

clfsean

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
3,687
Reaction score
400
Location
Metropolitan Tokyo
Noted. Perhaps a better question would be "How central is this (energy-hands exercise) to your training?" Certainly, it seems more emphasized in the softer, close fighting systems than in the longer range styles and the very hard styles. I haven't heard about such training in Northern Long Fist, or systems like Hung Gar and Choy Lay Fut. Of course, there's a lot I haven't heard about. That's why I'm posting this!

In my CLF school, "sticky hands" is worked by arm/leg bridging & body leanings/sinkings. This is done both stationary & moving. For us, it's more "sticky body" than just hands, but that's the general idea.
 

stickarts

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
3,902
Reaction score
60
Location
middletown, CT USA
The system I trained in had 2 hand and one hand push hands. It was my favorite part of the system to practice along with sword play.
 

Nitedragon89

Orange Belt
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
64
Reaction score
0
Location
Mission Viejo
Actually Hung Gar does there form is like in CLF said using bridges to connect to the body etc.

Noted. Perhaps a better question would be "How central is this (energy-hands exercise) to your training?" Certainly, it seems more emphasized in the softer, close fighting systems than in the longer range styles and the very hard styles. I haven't heard about such training in Northern Long Fist, or systems like Hung Gar and Choy Lay Fut. Of course, there's a lot I haven't heard about. That's why I'm posting this!
 

oxy

Blue Belt
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
258
Reaction score
5
I meant a authentic CMA... not something from the movies or Shaolin temple for the masses... :D:D:D

Still, eating Crab (and other crustaceans as well) does take a lot of Hard Work and you do end up with sticky hands, so I stand corrected.
 

clfsean

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
3,687
Reaction score
400
Location
Metropolitan Tokyo
Still, eating Crab (and other crustaceans as well) does take a lot of Hard Work and you do end up with sticky hands, so I stand corrected.

Well in that context... :D:D BRING ON THE GARLIC BUTTER!!!!!!!
 
Top