Does Wing Chun use Fajing?

Yoshiyahu

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Does Wing Chun use Fajing?

Definition:

Fa jin, fajin, or fa chin (fā j穫n, 發勁) is a term used in some Chinese martial arts, particularly the neijia (internal) martial arts, such as Xingyi, T'ai Chi Chuan Baguazhang and Bak Mei.

It means to issue or discharge power, and is not specific to any particular striking method. J穫n (勁), or "power", is often confused by Westerners with the related concept of jīng (精), which literally means "essence."


Also please describe the Four types of Chi and How they relate to Jing (Semen).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nei_Jin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jing_(TCM)
 

JadecloudAlchemist

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I don't practice Wing Chun but I imagine every art has Fa jing. The thing is most arts do not know how use it. If you want to know how to cultivate Fa jing learn Silk reeling.

There is more than 4 types of Qi and I could find a way to link say Di Qi which is Earth Qi and link it to Semen or how Gui Qi is really where semen comes from because the Ghost comes down during sex and into the Egg.

But that is just a story.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Very interesting....


i don't practice wing chun but i imagine every art has fa jing. The thing is most arts do not know how use it. If you want to know how to cultivate fa jing learn silk reeling.

There is more than 4 types of qi and i could find a way to link say di qi which is earth qi and link it to semen or how gui qi is really where semen comes from because the ghost comes down during sex and into the egg.

But that is just a story.
 

profesormental

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Greetings.

I can describe more than 8 types of Qi... yet that is another story!

Hells yeah we've gots Fa Jin!!

And As has been noted, not many know how to manifest it...

Yet I know of some that manifest it and don't know it or know how to reproduce the effects (teach others how).

There are different ways to manifest it, and the ways I do have a lot to do with specific sequencing and timing of kinetic chains and methods of execution.

A funny story...

I was practicing with some of my students and I decided to video most of my classes as to gauge my progress and that of my students. I was giving a class on methods of execution.

As I was describing them I demonstrated how to generate bone-crushing power, Paths of Action and corresponding Methods of Execution.

I had a student put 2 chest protectors, one on top of the other, so that it didn't hurt. Then I did the demos and then they proceeded to practice and then practice hitting me so I could gauge their skill.

Upon review of the video, I noticed something...

The target was the upper right pectoral... where TV wrestling guys hit each other... in TV wrestling you hit really hard in places that you won't get hurt...

When I hit with a backfist, I saw the eyes of the student flutter... I KO'd him!!

The same with hammerfist, chops (fak sao). I didn't know I was hitting them that hard!!! Some landed on their butts or had to take several steps back, since the Paths of Action also destroyed their structure.

Next class I apologized to all, since I didn't know I was hitting that hard...

I guess improvement comes in steps, and sometimes not as a continous line.

Juan M. Mercado
 

paulus

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The purpose of the second section of siu lim tau is to develop fa jing. Or at least that's what we do with it.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Paulus, Please Explain how it develops Fa Jin?

Also do you guys do anything to practice Fa Jin?

An profesormental explain exactly what is Fa Jin and how do you develop it?


The purpose of the second section of siu lim tau is to develop fa jing. Or at least that's what we do with it.
 

paulus

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Paulus, Please Explain how it develops Fa Jin?
I understand fa jing to be 'explosive power' (possibly over minimal distance). When we execute the movements in the second section of SLT we leave the actual development of power until the last moment and execute the movements 'explosively'.

What are your thoughts on fa jing, Yoshiyahu, and how do you develop it?
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Excellent response!


An how does practicing these way develop fa jin?


I understand fa jing to be 'explosive power' (possibly over minimal distance). When we execute the movements in the second section of SLT we leave the actual development of power until the last moment and execute the movements 'explosively'.

What are your thoughts on fa jing, Yoshiyahu, and how do you develop it?
 

paulus

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An how does practicing these way develop fa jin?
That's an odd question! Practising running fast develops your ability to run fast. In the same way, repeating the execution of a jik jeung (or a punch etc) with all the power concentrated at the end of the movement develops fa jing. My understanding is that the 'explosive power' at the end of the movement is the fa jing. If you practise that then you develop your ability to do it.

But how do you understand fa jing, Yoshiyahu, and how do you develop it? Your perspective might be different to mine. I'm guessing from all the questions that you've been taught differently?
 
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Yoshiyahu

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On the contrary I agree Fa Jin is explosive power. An all you have said is correct. But I started the thread to hear others points and views. I didn't want to bogged it down with my Sifu's teachings. But to me the Fa Jin is much more than just an explosive punch. But what you said is good and true. I do not want to take away from that. On the contrary let me add to it. Now Sil Lim Tao trains Internal Energy and Short Power. You are correct that movements at the end train Fa Jin along with some other aspects.

My Sifu taught me to practice Sil Lim Tao different ways.

1.Once Really Slow, With Soft Power.
2.Once Medium Speed With Hard Power.
3.Once Extremely Fast with medium Power.
4.Once with Explosive power medium speed all the way through.
5.Once with with medium speed and soft power.
6.Once Fast with hard Power.
7.Once Extremely Slow with Fa Jin(Explosive Power).
8.One One leg alternating legs.
9.Meditating on the techniques.
10.Meditationg on energy or Chi and dispersing it at the end of fist.

These are basic ways I practice Sil Lim Tau. Now lets take Medium Speed with Fa Jin. Now the only place I do not use Fa Jin or medium speed is where you do your Wu Sau Fok Sau Motion. The reason being is this is a Chi Kung Exercise with in Sil Lim Tao. So I always do it soft and slow. But the movements before and after that sequence I do with Fa Jin at medium or slow speeds. Or Fast speeds. Depending on which number I am on. But I do other exercises with Fa Jin. I practice punches in the air using my hips, waist and joints and stance along with a snap at the end of punch. I practice the forms using the Breath along with meditating on Chi traveling through my body and out my fist. I practice punching the Air concentrating on Chi as well coming from Tan Tien.


In my humble opinion

Fa Jin is much more than the snap at end of your punch or the extra power you place into the punch. But it is a total connection of your stance and waist generating power from the ground to your feet, ankles, knees, hips waist chest shoulders elbows wrist and out through the knuckles. This is my opinion others may disagree. I look at Fa Jin as whole body power. Using your Structure to give you power in your punch over mere phyiscal strength.

Wikipedia says: "A famous application of n癡i j穫n is the "fā j穫n" (發勁) used by practitioners of the internal martial arts to generate relaxed but explosive force. A key aspect of fa jin is the recruitment of the body's sinews (tendons, ligaments, and other connective tissues) to release force rather than relying on muscular tension."

I believe the key to increasing it would be to practice with a heavy bag like 200lbs to 400lbs. An practicing punching or kicking the bag using your entire body. Concetrate on your Chi and release the breath upon impact. Envision your Energy going through the bag and out the other side. I practice Punches while using foot work to generate more power. As well practicing stepping forward and palm striking a tree. Shaking the tree gives me a gauge on how much whole body force I am using in my palm strike. I also stand in front of tree and practice rotating palm strikes using my stance and waist to generate power.

In my opinion a good practice for the wall bag would be train each part of the hand tediously and then the arm and then the entire body behind the punch.

1.Start off with just punching with just the wrist with your entire arm extended.

2.Secondly punch with just wrist and elbow

3. Third punch with just Wrist elbow and shoulder

4.Fourth punch with Wrist, Shoulder Elbow and Chest or Curl.

5. Fifth Punch with Wrist Shoulder Elbow Chest and Waist.

6 and 7 begin use your stance and then footwork.

Do each fifty times on each hand then switch.

But this is my humble opinion on ways to train Fa Jing. There are others including Chi Kung and Tai Chi one can practice and adding Fa Jing to all Wing Chun forms as well as some one man drills. But I will stop here...Because again my purpose is not for me to share all my thoughts and opinions on what I have been taught but to listen and inquire and learn how other lineages train and develop their Wing Chun. This is my reasoning for asking questions.

So do not take my questioning as demeaning or be littling in anyway.


That's an odd question! Practising running fast develops your ability to run fast. In the same way, repeating the execution of a jik jeung (or a punch etc) with all the power concentrated at the end of the movement develops fa jing. My understanding is that the 'explosive power' at the end of the movement is the fa jing. If you practise that then you develop your ability to do it.

But how do you understand fa jing, Yoshiyahu, and how do you develop it? Your perspective might be different to mine. I'm guessing from all the questions that you've been taught differently?
 
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profesormental

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Greetings.

Great post, Mr. Yoshiyahu!

I have to add that what is done there is only part of the training for manifesting Fa Jin.

Remember that it can manifest linearly, and in circular paths too! And different kinds of strikes.

There are many aspects to Fa Jin training, including kinetic chain development and trainsitioning to a stable configuration from a dynamic one. This is to maximize energy transfer to the target.

This is a somewhat complex subject. Much easier just to show.

Others include specific Methods of Execution, Paths of Action and Kinesiological Output Generation, Weapon Selection, Target Selection, Destructive Sequencing, etc.

Notice the use of physically observable and measurable principles and vocabulary. This is to decrease, and eventually erase ambiguity, using logical language and constructs, instead of metaphorical.

The idea is that metaphorical language points to WHAT, and we want it to point to HOW.

Much more later. Video maybe...

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Wow you gave a college lecture there sir...wow all upper level terminology. I don't think I can top that. I look forward to the video!



Greetings.

Great post, Mr. Yoshiyahu!

I have to add that what is done there is only part of the training for manifesting Fa Jin.

Remember that it can manifest linearly, and in circular paths too! And different kinds of strikes.

There are many aspects to Fa Jin training, including kinetic chain development and trainsitioning to a stable configuration from a dynamic one. This is to maximize energy transfer to the target.

This is a somewhat complex subject. Much easier just to show.

Others include specific Methods of Execution, Paths of Action and Kinesiological Output Generation, Weapon Selection, Target Selection, Destructive Sequencing, etc.

Notice the use of physically observable and measurable principles and vocabulary. This is to decrease, and eventually erase ambiguity, using logical language and constructs, instead of metaphorical.

The idea is that metaphorical language points to WHAT, and we want it to point to HOW.

Much more later. Video maybe...

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado
 

paulus

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So do not take my questioning as demeaning or be littling in anyway.
Not at all :). This is a forum for us all to learn, so I thank you for explaining your interpretation and practice of fa jing. It was very interesting.

I understood the importance of structure and of the connection between the fist that punches all the way back down to the ground you stand on, but never thought of it as 'fa jing'. I suppose as long as we do 'it' (or at least try!), it doesn't matter so much what we call 'it'.
 

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Not at all :). This is a forum for us all to learn, so I thank you for explaining your interpretation and practice of fa jing. It was very interesting.

I understood the importance of structure and of the connection between the fist that punches all the way back down to the ground you stand on, but never thought of it as 'fa jing'. I suppose as long as we do 'it' (or at least try!), it doesn't matter so much what we call 'it'.


I understand fully what you are saying. This is the way I learned from day one. The hard part was feeling it. In Okinawan GoJu, GoJu meaning hard/soft the hard wiring from the ground to the technique was fairly easy, but it felt slow. It wasnt until I moved from the Go part to the Ju part, the relaxing part, that I began to feel that connection better. It seems that the more I relaxed, the stronger my techniques felt. At first Sanchin kata was done very hard, and once the ground connection was felt, then we learned Tensho, which is done very softly. Power comes from breath, structure and balance rather them muscle alone so in the end result, maybe this is what Fa Jin is all about. Like you said most have it, but dont know it. J
 

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Yoshiyahu said:
Wow you gave a college lecture there sir...wow all upper level terminology. I don't think I can top that. I look forward to the video!

Thanks sir.

I hope it makes it cleared why it is hard to explain the WHY and the HOW of training to manifest Fa Jin.

And stance work and footwork is the basis of manifesting Fa jin no matter what strike!

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Yea, I have to find some videos of where Fa Jin is being used. My Favorite is this one Asian guy. You can not really see his feet or stance completely but you can see that he is moving his whole body behind each strike.

This is a demonstration of Fa Jin being used. Just Excellent demostration!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxxebP0u31g&feature=PlayList&p=674A946B2029F322&index=0&playnext=1


I hope you enjoy the video...great...



Not at all :). This is a forum for us all to learn, so I thank you for explaining your interpretation and practice of fa jing. It was very interesting.

I understood the importance of structure and of the connection between the fist that punches all the way back down to the ground you stand on, but never thought of it as 'fa jing'. I suppose as long as we do 'it' (or at least try!), it doesn't matter so much what we call 'it'.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Mr.Seasoned Fighter. You have shown over and over how all styles inter relate. You may not study Wing Chun but many of your principals and theories are exactly the same....Excellent....



I understand fully what you are saying. This is the way I learned from day one. The hard part was feeling it. In Okinawan GoJu, GoJu meaning hard/soft the hard wiring from the ground to the technique was fairly easy, but it felt slow. It wasnt until I moved from the Go part to the Ju part, the relaxing part, that I began to feel that connection better. It seems that the more I relaxed, the stronger my techniques felt. At first Sanchin kata was done very hard, and once the ground connection was felt, then we learned Tensho, which is done very softly. Power comes from breath, structure and balance rather them muscle alone so in the end result, maybe this is what Fa Jin is all about. Like you said most have it, but dont know it. J
 
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