Do you know your karate lineage?

[twendkata71]

I am just wondering if all of the members know the lineage of their karate style/or system? Or their personal training lineage. How far does it go back?
Here is the lineage of the style of karate that I currently study.
Takahara Peichin& Kusanku
|
Sakagawa Tode` / Ruruko
| |
Matsumura Sokon / Hiagoanna Kanryo
| |
Itosu Tausutsune / Kyoda Juhatsu
| |
Toyama Kanken |
| |
Onishi Eizo < --------------- - |
|
Don Madden
|
Me

 

[tshadowchaser]

I am knowledgeable of my lineage in Sikaran but have to admit that a few of the styles of "Karate" that i have studied in the past i never learned the whole lineage of ( my bad).
After becoming a member here i learned more about the lineage of most of the systems I have studied (Thank you to all that have posted knowledge of the different systems)

 

[stone_dragone]

I can verifiably trace back only two generations and am having difficulty finding the linking individual that can make it go all the way back to late 1700's okinawa. All attempts at finding the said individual have been fruitless. So, in theory I can give my lineage, but since I can't verify, I'm not going to give what could be a lie.

 

[twendkata71]

[Perhaps if you give me the style name I could do some research. At my teachers dojo. We have a lineage chart from Japan. It has the lineages of all of the main Karate and Jujitsu schools of Japan. Once I get a few of the teachers in your lineage, I can usually find where the link to the lineage is.








quote=stone_dragone]I can verifiably trace back only two generations and am having difficulty finding the linking individual that can make it go all the way back to late 1700's okinawa. All attempts at finding the said individual have been fruitless. So, in theory I can give my lineage, but since I can't verify, I'm not going to give what could be a lie.[/quote]

 

[stone_dragone]

[Perhaps if you give me the style name I could do some research. At my teachers dojo. We have a lineage chart from Japan. It has the lineages of all of the main Karate and Jujitsu schools of Japan. Once I get a few of the teachers in your lineage, I can usually find where the link to the lineage is.

The issue is finding records of the missing link. My teacher's instructor is the problem. I am told that he is a man named Larry White (Goju Ryu). I am further told that Larry White studied under Peter Urban in Philadelphia (possibly new york). Peter Urban's lineage is easliy tracked from there (Yamaguchi Gogen and Richard Kim and then further back).

The problem is that I have had zero luck tracking down any record of (or people other than my teacher's instructor that can verify the existance of) Larry White or that he studied with and earned a black belt under Peter Urban. It is possible that he was also instructed but Robert Trias (I'm goin off of my memory of a conversation with my teacher's instructor at this point). This is the issue.

My lineage is forced to stop at my teacher's instructor since I am unable to independently verify (other than word of mouth) that it goes any further. Anyone who can help with that, I'd appreciate.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Only to a certain point. My Shorin Ryu Shorinkan training lineage is clear but I didn't recieve a black belt with them. Only with my original instructor and he never was clear on who taught him.

 

[twendkata71]

I was unable to find that name anywhere in the lineage charts of the Shuri ryu/ Shorei goju styles. And I looked at he Urban USA Goju sites and could not find the name. They only have active schools listed. I have heard that name before. The Larry White that I have heard of is a kenpo master. On the Shuri ryu linage charts there is a Ray White, and a Gary White,but no Larry White. Perhaps he did train with Master Urban,but separated from the organization some time ago. Many times when a person leaves an organization their name is ommited from any lineage charts. Sometimes even their dan rank is revoked by the organization. That would make it impossible to do a adequate research on a persons lineage. Where is this person's school located now? I will do somemore digging.
If the style that you practice works for you and is effective, then your instructor and his teacher must have done something right. The point of my posting the question is to see how many people know their lineage, not weither or not it is from certain lineage. It doesn't matter to me if it is Japanese,Okinawan,Korean, Chinese,etc.

[Perhaps if you give me the style name I could do some research. At my teachers dojo. We have a lineage chart from Japan. It has the lineages of all of the main Karate and Jujitsu schools of Japan. Once I get a few of the teachers in your lineage, I can usually find where the link to the lineage is.

The issue is finding records of the missing link. My teacher's instructor is the problem. I am told that he is a man named Larry White (Goju Ryu). I am further told that Larry White studied under Peter Urban in Philadelphia (possibly new york). Peter Urban's lineage is easliy tracked from there (Yamaguchi Gogen and Richard Kim and then further back).

The problem is that I have had zero luck tracking down any record of (or people other than my teacher's instructor that can verify the existance of) Larry White or that he studied with and earned a black belt under Peter Urban. It is possible that he was also instructed but Robert Trias (I'm goin off of my memory of a conversation with my teacher's instructor at this point). This is the issue.

My lineage is forced to stop at my teacher's instructor since I am unable to independently verify (other than word of mouth) that it goes any further. Anyone who can help with that, I'd appreciate.

 

[twendkata71]

From Master Balas's web site. Apparently his background is in Shotokan karate and Tang soo do, as well as Jujitsu and Aikido.
With that information it is easy to get some sort of lineage. It does have his Korean instructor's name listed,but it does not have his Shotokan teacher in Japan name listed. I have heard of the contributions that Master Balas has made to the martial arts in Ohio.

Only to a certain point. My Shorin Ryu Shorinkan training lineage is clear but I didn't recieve a black belt with them. Only with my original instructor and he never was clear on who taught him.

 

[stone_dragone]

I was unable to find that name anywhere in the lineage charts of the Shuri ryu/ Shorei goju styles. And I looked at he Urban USA Goju sites and could not find the name. They only have active schools listed. I have heard that name before. The Larry White that I have heard of is a kenpo master. On the Shuri ryu linage charts there is a Ray White, and a Gary White,but no Larry White. Perhaps he did train with Master Urban,but separated from the organization some time ago. Many times when a person leaves an organization their name is ommited from any lineage charts. Sometimes even their dan rank is revoked by the organization. That would make it impossible to do a adequate research on a persons lineage. Where is this person's school located now? I will do somemore digging.
If the style that you practice works for you and is effective, then your instructor and his teacher must have done something right. The point of my posting the question is to see how many people know their lineage, not weither or not it is from certain lineage. It doesn't matter to me if it is Japanese,Okinawan,Korean, Chinese,etc.


I appreciate your help. The research I've done is stictly out of desire to know more. I have my doubts as to the history of what we do, but no question at all about the effectiveness of what my teachers have passed to me. perhaps in 20-30 years, the students of my student's students will be able to trace our lineage back to my teacher's teacher and they can benifit from a longer lineage than me...I think that all came out right...

For the record, I think I remember hearing that Larry White studied kenpo as well (but White is a VERY common last name, too). Thanks again.

 

[JasonASmith]

I will post my lineage when I start in a few weeks, but if I rememer correctly, it's: G. Funakoshi, then the elder Sutrisno(who has passed on), then Tristan Sutrisno, then Gladfelter Sensei....And it seems to me that Gladfelter Sensei mentioned a Sensei Brooks, who was his original Sensei....
When Sensei Brooks passed on, Gladfelter Sensei began his association/training with the Sutrisno clan...Their organization is called Bushi no Te, if I remember correctly...

 

[Haze]

Chojun Miyagi (Goju)
Seikichi Toguchi
Masanobu Shinjo (Shobukan)
Frank Van Lenten (Goshinkai)
James W Coker
Me

 

[TimoS]

Without checking reference books or web sites, my lineage looks (approximately) like this:

Chotoku Kyan -> Zenpo Shimabukuro and Joen Nakazato (mainly Shimabukuro to the best of my knowledge) -> Isamu Tamotsu -> Motomu Ikubo -> Yuji Matsuoi -> me

Isamu Tamotsu may have had some other teachers as well, but their names aren't known to me. Motomu Ikubo has had other karate teachers, but to my understanding, Tamotsu was his main teacher

 

[twendkata71]

Do you do the bogu fighting in your faction of Shorinji ryu?

 

[Shrewsbury]

shobayashi shorin ryu;

matsumura
itosu
kyan
arakaki
shimbaku
Emil Motonick

Ted Ricketts
Joseph Panachone
will duncan
jay shrewsbury

 

[TimoS]

Do you do the bogu fighting in your faction of Shorinji ryu?

Yes we do. Our style is basically a spin-off from Renshinkan.

 

[TimoS]

Oh damn! Made a small mistake in the lineage: it should be the older Shimabukuro! Zenryo Shimabukuro and not Zenpo

 

[twendkata71]

I enjoy doing the bogu type of kumite. The Koei kan which my teachers style comes from does bogu kumite with the kendo face masks. I like the modern head gear with the plastic cover much better.

 

[twendkata71]

Have you ever thought of going to Okinawa and training with Shimabuku Eizo Hanshi personally. He is still teaching. He is now in his 80's, but I hear he is still quite agile and alert. It would be a great experience. I am planning a trip to Japan next year to visit the Koei kan. Even though we are no longer affiliated with the Koei kan it will be good to see where our style comes from.

shobayashi shorin ryu;

matsumura
itosu
kyan
arakaki
shimbaku
Emil Motonick

Ted Ricketts
Joseph Panachone
will duncan
jay shrewsbury

 

[TimoS]

I enjoy doing the bogu type of kumite. The Koei kan which my teachers style comes from does bogu kumite with the kendo face masks. I like the modern head gear with the plastic cover much better.

We don't use the kendo style helmets, mostly I guess because they are quite expensive. Here's an image that shows the style of helmets in use here in Finland

 

[Henderson]

For what it's worth, mine is.....

Ryuru Ko (Xie Zhongxlang)
Kanryo Higaonna
Chojun Miyagi
Ei'ichi Miyazato / Gogen Yamaguchi
Peter Urban / Yamamoto
Chuck Merriman
Ron Martin
Bob Cook
Me