Do you have a progressive mind set?

[drop bear]

This is the kick I'm talking about . This is the kick that I did in the fight. But because He was running towards me an because I didn't understand timing at the age of 12. It forced me to kick sooner than what I should have and it jammed my kick. When people kick in doors they do not do running jump kicks like I did.

The kick landed on his sternum upper stomach. He was really mad after being kicked like that. I think of it like this. When I want to kick in a door, I won't be doing this kick.
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A surprising amount of people pull off flying kicks in street fights.

I just think we have a very biased perception on them. So we discount them.

It is one of those circumstances where the training in the dojo doesn't reflect the dynamics of the street. So you are rarely training in a situation where you are engaging in some sort of running battle.

But street fights. Especially big ones. This can absolutely be the case. And then flying kicks become higher percentage.

But otherwise people legitimately pull this move off.

 

[isshinryuronin]

A surprising amount of people pull off flying kicks in street fights.

Really? I'm not talking about movie stuntmen in kung fu movies with bodies flying around all over the place.

It is one of those circumstances where the training in the dojo doesn't reflect the dynamics of the street.

So, you're for practicing flying kicks in the dojo as they reflect street fight dynamics against a competent opponent?

Why are flying kicks (not just a jumping knee) not common in MMA?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Really? I'm not talking about movie stuntmen in kung fu movies with bodies flying around all over the place.

I'm pretty sure he isn't either. A flying kick, even if blocked, requires total commitment. And even if blocked, it stands a reasonable chance of disrupting the targets balance and defense, allowing for a follow up.

So, you're for practicing flying kicks in the dojo as they reflect street fight dynamics against a competent opponent?

Sure. It's not your go-to move, but it's worth putting in some practice time, after you've gotten the basics.

Why are flying kicks (not just a jumping knee) not common in MMA?

Well, you know, a flying kick requires a fair bit of distance. A few steps at the very least. Which is not often the case in most MMA fights.

 

[drop bear]

Really? I'm not talking about movie stuntmen in kung fu movies with bodies flying around all over the place.

So, you're for practicing flying kicks in the dojo as they reflect street fight dynamics against a competent opponent?

Why are flying kicks (not just a jumping knee) not common in MMA?

I did a whole thread on it back in the day.

flying kicks for the streets.

Your opponent's 45 degree downward flying side kick (with all his body weight behind it), aiming at your leading leg knee joint can be the most scary entering strategy that your opponent applies on you. Just to think that a 200 lb of weight is going to drop on your knee joint, it will put you in...

www.martialtalk.com

And probably found about 8 to 10 examples eventually. Which just seems a lot for a move that shouldn't work.

 

[isshinryuronin]

They are not practical IMO in a fight: There is telegraphing, they are slow and comparatively easy to evade, impact power not any greater (as you noted), and can leave you open to being dumped. All in all, liabilities far outweigh advantages.

For those who think flying kicks are practical in a fight against a competent opponent, what about all these drawbacks that perhaps should be addressed?

The video of the Brazilian cop's flying kick is not representative (though very cool). The target was in the process of just getting off a bike and so not competent. Also, the cop was not in a fight, but chasing/apprehending him - a unique scenario. Most of us do not chase down someone in order to attack. This is not a self defense scenario.

Not saying there is never a use for a flying kick (not jumping/skipping) but it would be for a unique situation. Again, I listed a number of disadvantages that I think outweigh this move being used in most street fight scenarios.

 

[Dirty Dog]

For those who think flying kicks are practical in a fight against a competent opponent, what about all these drawbacks that perhaps should be addressed?

This is such a common phenomenon that I feel like it should have a name.
Person A says "there are times you can make this work".
Person B then goes on and on ad infinitum about how it won't work in every situation. Even though person A already said that.
Other than "strawman argument", I can't think of a term that fits.

 

[Steve]

Well, you know, a flying kick requires a fair bit of distance. A few steps at the very least. Which is not often the case in most MMA fights.

Didn't take long to find one in competition.

And one from the UFC in particular.

 

[Steve]

For those who think flying kicks are practical in a fight against a competent opponent, what about all these drawbacks that perhaps should be addressed?

The video of the Brazilian cop's flying kick is not representative (though very cool). The target was in the process of just getting off a bike and so not competent. Also, the cop was not in a fight, but chasing/apprehending him - a unique scenario. Most of us do not chase down someone in order to attack. This is not a self defense scenario.

Not saying there is never a use for a flying kick (not jumping/skipping) but it would be for a unique situation. Again, I listed a number of disadvantages that I think outweigh this move being used in most street fight scenarios.

As with most things, I think it depends on how you apply not just that technique, but how much you've actually developed your overall skillset. The better you are at fighting in general, the more capable you will be to use techniques like this, and recover if they don't work, even against competent opponents.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Didn't take long to find one in competition.


And one from the UFC in particular.

Of course. Because as was said, while it's not anybodies go-to move, it is certainly worth learning.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Flying kicks (covering distance and height) are one thing, quick jump kicks are another. I am not a fan of flying kicks (although great fun to do) even though I practiced them for a few years, jumping over hurdles a few feet in front of the heavy bag. If the opponent is so far away you need to fly to him, he's too far to present a threat.

They are not practical IMO in a fight: There is telegraphing, they are slow and comparatively easy to evade, impact power not any greater (as you noted), and can leave you open to being dumped. All in all, liabilities far outweigh advantages. As far as I know, they do not exist in traditional Okinawan kata or kihon.

Jumping kicks are another story. I think the goal here is not to go for distance or height, but to execute 2 kicks (perhaps fake the first) in quick succession, saving time by not getting the first foot on the ground before doing the second kick.

This jumping double kick is found in Okinawan kata, and, like most kicks in kata, you have grabbed the opponent's wrist/arm and are holding him during the kick. So this is proof the goal is not distance or extra height as the opponent is only an arm and a half length distance away. By holding on to him, many of the disadvantages of flying kicks are negated. Even so, it is a kick I'd rarely use in an actual fight. Sport karate sparring is, as always, a different story.

After the kick failed. I got scared and I ran away, I wasn't afraid of the guy as much as I was worried that my plan didn't have the impact that I was planning of + he looked really angry after that kick. So he chased me and I thought that was the end of it after he couldn't catch me.. This happened at the end of PE. On the way back to class he attacked me from behind, but some how I knew he was approaching, because I went to grab his incoming arm which fell on my guard and was able to do a basic hip toss. He fell on the ground and I landed on top mount with fist ready to punch him in the face..

If someone wants to be progressive then take away the flying kicks. Like this stuff. I think things like this should be classified as "Fight Choreography" Martial arts should be attached to it. Ditch the Martial arts uniform and wear something different. There's nothing wrong with other than it should be clearly distinguished as something that that's Choreographed

 

[Oily Dragon]

As with most things, I think it depends on how you apply not just that technique, but how much you've actually developed your overall skillset. The better you are at fighting in general, the more capable you will be to use techniques like this, and recover if they don't work, even against competent opponents.

Proof:

 

[Dirty Dog]

After the kick failed. I got scared and I ran away, I wasn't afraid of the guy as much as I was worried that my plan didn't have the impact that I was planning of + he looked really angry after that kick. So he chased me and I thought that was the end of it after he couldn't catch me.. This happened at the end of PE. On the way back to class he attacked me from behind, but some how I knew he was approaching, because I went to grab his incoming arm which fell on my guard and was able to do a basic hip toss. He fell on the ground and I landed on top mount with fist ready to punch him in the face..

If someone wants to be progressive then take away the flying kicks. Like this stuff. I think things like this should be classified as "Fight Choreography" Martial arts should be attached to it. Ditch the Martial arts uniform and wear something different. There's nothing wrong with other than it should be clearly distinguished as something that that's Choreographed

That stuff is recognized as demonstrating agility and athleticism. You wouldn't break wafers if you were trying to demonstrate power. Martial gymnastics, as it were. However, while the back flips and multiple turns aren't something you're likely to see for real, the actual kick they're doing is totally usable.
As for choreographed... is there anyone who doesn't think breaking is always, 100% choreographed?

 

[Oily Dragon]

That stuff is recognized as demonstrating agility and athleticism. You wouldn't break wafers if you were trying to demonstrate power. Martial gymnastics, as it were. However, while the back flips and multiple turns aren't something you're likely to see for real, the actual kick they're doing is totally usable.
As for choreographed... is there anyone who doesn't think breaking is always, 100% choreographed?

Depends on what's getting broken.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Depends on what's getting broken.

Not really. The context is, pretty obviously, a demonstration. Breaking is done in practice, in demos, and in testing. That's pretty much it. And it's all 100% pre-planned.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Not really. The context is, pretty obviously, a demonstration. Breaking is done in practice, in demos, and in testing. That's pretty much it. And it's all 100% pre-planned.

You're not a lot of fun at parties, are you.

Recognizing humor is the most important martial skill.

I know that because of the 36 Stratagems.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You're not a lot of fun at parties, are you.

Sure am.

Recognizing humor is the most important martial skill.

But you didn't say anything funny.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Sure am.

But you didn't say anything funny.

I'll try harder.

 

[JowGaWolf]

As with most things, I think it depends on how you apply not just that technique, but how much you've actually developed your overall skillset. The better you are at fighting in general, the more capable you will be to use techniques like this, and recover if they don't work, even against competent opponents.

As someone who has used it in a fight, It's not effective for the amount of energy that is put into it unless a person is standing still and you have enough distance to run into the kick. You can't root in the air and that's a problem for this type of kick.
So the impact of this kick is determined by the speed that you build up in the run, plus the person standing still If any of these 2 realities are missing then the kick will be useless

This clip highlights this truth. (stays in one spot "aka staying still" enough running space)

This clip shows what happens when the one of the elements is missing. The person moves away from the kick and isn't even phased. Moving forward would jam the kick because it's impossible to adjust the timing and space needed for the kick after you leap.

Again "Running space" + "person standing still"

Same scenario same 2 elements.

This is accurate to how I understand it. Notice at the beginning it's a "Flying kick" and towards the end he covers less distance and it becomes more of a jump kick.

If I were to sucker kick someone. It would probably be with a fighting kick. This is the common way that I've seen this kicked used. When the other person doesn't know it's coming.

 

[JowGaWolf]

A surprising amount of people pull off flying kicks in street fights.

You have to understand that I'm only talking about the flying side kick. There are other flying kicks that work, but I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about the linear one where you need running space in order to get the impact you need. The kicks that I think of as "Jump Kicks" cover smaller distance and doesn't require a running start. These kicks are faster so they are able to nail the opponent when the opponent is standing still.

It's not a bias. Next time you train give it a try. Then come back and let us know how it went.

 

[Alan0354]

I have seen more fancy kicks in UFC the last few years. I think it's more the surprising factor than being effective. We all know it's faster to kick a lower kick, they know it, so they are prepare for it. Before, nobody use fancy high kicks, so they were not prepare for it.

Now, people expect high round and front kicks, so logical next step is jump flying kicks that people do not expect. Maybe later people adapt and look out of flying kicks, they then have to come up with something unexpected to win the fight.

They study the fighter like they study the football team, what is the opponent's strong and weak points and taylor the training accordingly.