"DO" as a separation from practicality and usefulness

[seasoned]

deleted

I know from talking to my instructor that if you dojo hopped, which was common in Okinawa for Americans, you were taught little more then moves. For those that were sincere and trained hard, more was given, but the language barrier was still a problem. "Do" the way, was the way I was taught. All of my certificates up to my last, reflects Okinawa GoJu-Ryu Katate-Do. If there is more to it then this, then it is news to me. In GoJu, the kata taught life preservation, this was the "Do", the way. "Jutsu" ??

 

[punisher73]

I know from talking to my instructor that if you dojo hopped, which was common in Okinawa for Americans, you were taught little more then moves. For those that were sincere and trained hard, more was given, but the language barrier was still a problem. "Do" the way, was the way I was taught. All of my certificates up to my last, reflects Okinawa GoJu-Ryu Katate-Do. If there is more to it then this, then it is news to me. In GoJu, the kata taught life preservation, this was the "Do", the way. "Jutsu" ??

Like it was said before, after the war things changed for karate. Goju-Ryu used to start students on Sanchin kata for about 3 years before they were shown another kata (and the next one was picked by Miyagi based on body type etc.). After the war (and even before the war, during the build up), lots of young men were taught karate to instill discipline and physical fitness, that is why it was done in a military fashion. To make karate more interesting to younger people and keep their interest (and simplify it), Miyagi created the Gekisai katas (Fukyu 2 in Shorin Ryu) along with Nagamine for this purpose.

These transitions are what is referred to when looking at karate as more of a "do" or "way" than focusing on combat technique alone. The emphasis shifted away from learning to fight only and training the body for that, and learning discipline and character development. But again, the moves were still there, hidden in place sight, for those that knew what to look for an pursued that aspect. It is also an example of the "cultural baggage" that this thread is about. Having a student doing only one kata for 3 years with no explanation, rooted out only the most dedicated (or stubborn) of students.

To reiterate though, if you look only at the kata, basics etc. They are going to be the exact same thing, it is in the focus and training method that will differentiate what was meant by the difference.

 

[dancingalone]

I know from talking to my instructor that if you dojo hopped, which was common in Okinawa for Americans, you were taught little more then moves. For those that were sincere and trained hard, more was given, but the language barrier was still a problem. "Do" the way, was the way I was taught. All of my certificates up to my last, reflects Okinawa GoJu-Ryu Katate-Do. If there is more to it then this, then it is news to me. In GoJu, the kata taught life preservation, this was the "Do", the way. "Jutsu" ??

My teacher, an Okinawan by way of Singapore, calls what he teaches Goju-Ryu Karate-Do. I wonder why at times though since we barely did more than bow in and recite the dojo kun before delving immediately into the physical training. My whole time training with him I could remember him explaining the dojo kun perhaps a handful of times. In contrast, a dojang I guest instruct in, has frequent expositions on the moral values of tae kwon do. They even have handouts they pass out on what perseverance, etc, mean.

 

[seasoned]

As an aside, here is an article done by a medical doctor on the punch and the -do vs. -jutsu applications.
http://www.yorkkarate.com/pdf/punching_power.pdf

In the article he discussed the full twist vs. a 45 degree punch and which is strongest anatomically. Interesting read.

This is an eye opening article, that opens up a whole new set of how to's pertaining to the karate punch. Chambering at the hip as opposed to higher, and center line or off center line at extension of the punch. Perhaps this falls in line with the original idea of this thread??
Re: "DO" as a separation from practicality and usefulness

 

[Brandon Fisher]

My view on the do vs. jutsu aspect of at least Okinawan Karate is this. Do is the beginning but Jutsu is the advanced. I don't really think it is really that separated like many believe.

Just my .02

 

[K-man]

My view on the do vs. jutsu aspect of at least Okinawan Karate is this. Do is the beginning but Jutsu is the advanced. I don't really think it is really that separated like many believe.

... and in the same way of thinking, '-jutsu' could be included within '-do'.

 

[seasoned]

Regarding karate, as a generality, I'd say that's pretty accurate. Using "do" is a more recent naming convention. Some schools may have switched to using "jutsu" instead of "do" because of the distinction being discussed in this thread...that "jutsu" implies a purely combative style (which is very "en vogue" nowadays), while "do" carries philosophical or cultural baggage that they don't want to be associated with anymore. But to the original question, about whether styles named with "do" have less combative applicability or have been "watered down" in some way, I would say no. At least in terms of Okinawan karate, regardless of the name the contents would be the same.

I could not agree more, with the above statement. I also feel that Martial arts, karate, or whatever you want to call it, it has something for everyone. Exercise, discipline, sport, killing art, camaraderie, social outlet, self defense. Take your pick, and when you do, and whatever path you take, give it your all, 100%. :asian:

 

[Nomad]

I believe a lot of it had to do with the politics of the time, especially in Japan. Before WWII, karate was of interest to the emperor and was marketed by Funakoshi and others as a way to make better warriors in a nation that was gearing up for conflict and demonstrating increasing nationalism.

After the war (especially during the American occupation), in order to be able to continue, karate became much more about self-improvement and character building and less about the martial applications. This corresponds to the use of -DO as a descriptive term, and I suspect that many of the nastier bunkai were de-emphasized during this period.

In a time when most traditional Japanese martial arts were banned (including kendo, if I remember correctly), Funakoshi managed to keep Shotokan karate going, and expand it to fill the void left by some of the other arts. I think he was fantastic at marketing, and was quite willing to change the "message" to keep the art alive.