flyingjundao
White Belt
Hi there, this is my first post! I really like this forum, but I’ve seen some threads about Taoist Tai Chi, and there seems to be a lot of unfortunate misconceptions and judgments of the art, and I think (as a practitioner) I should stand up for it a little.To begin with, Taoist Tai Chi is an adapted version of Yang style taijiquan created by the Taoist monk Moy Lin-Shin in the 1970’s (to know more about Mr. Moy, look at the wikipedia page: Moy Lin-shin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Initially, when Mr. Moy came to Canada, he began teaching traditional Yang, but he realized a lot of people were in it purely for surface value and martial techniques, so he shifted the focus of the moves to their non-competitive healing benefits. He ‘simplified’ the moves of the 108-form Yang and made the stretches and turns further emphasized, adding in elements of qigong and other internal arts, particularly stressing lok hup ba fa (liuhebafa) influence. This, alongside his teaching of his Taoist spiritual practices, was to act as an introduction to tai chi and traditional Chinese philosophy and culture.
His advanced students often proceeded to his more in-depth teaching of lok hup.Mr. Moy’s organizations were: the Taoist Tai Chi Society, his Taoist temple Fung Loy Kok Institute that he founded with Mui Ming-To and Tang Yuen Mei, and the Gei Pang Lok Hup Academy created in memory of his Master Liang Zipeng (a student of Wu Yi Hui). Their popularity grew to an international level, and after his death, they amalgamated into one big umbrella group.
The first misconception I’ve heard about the TTCS is that instructors are not well trained. From what I’ve seen, this is based on people only being exposed to beginner instructors. With the Taoist Tai Chi Society, a simplified set is taught to beginners for 3-4 months, and then they proceed to a ‘continuing class,’ where their form is refined and improved over time. Beginner instructors are often instructors-in-training, and have been doing tai chi for about 5 years (on average). All of the continuing class instructors I’ve seen, however, have upwards of 20 years of experience. In continuing classes, foundations are really emphasized, and the learning, as with any form of tai chi, is ever-deepening on physical and internal/meditative levels. In continuing class, depending on your instructor, certain techniques like push hands are used to develop your skill and balance. On one hand, a lot of practitioners learn tai chi with the TTCS for a good stretch and to become more supple, socialize, and have a nice place to go on a Saturday morning, but the benefits become more intense the more you put into it. Having practiced at the Quiet Cultivation International Centre in Canada, I got a lot of exposure to the deeper side of the organization and the art. We get a lot of workshops and lessons from advanced instructors - direct students of Mr. Moy - who have been practicing for around 40 years. There are lessons for tai chi sword, sabre, lok hup ba fa, and even xingyiquan at the International Centre, and (in addition to the short-term workshops and occasional long-running courses) these arts are reviewed after almost every regular tai chi class among groups of practitioners. A common question: are these arts practiced ‘martially’? The emphasis is on health, but there are obvious applications that are demonstrated (you won’t know how to swing a sabre around properly without having an understanding the purpose, despite the importance being the meditative ‘extension of the spine’ instead of combat. Intention is an important part of learning the moves of course). The sabre form is probably my favourite. There are a lot of parallels to Yang style actually, especially when you see the subtleties and flow in the movements of really experienced practitioners.
So I’m not completely sure how in-depth the practice of the art goes in more remote, satellite locations around the world, but I know the International Centre provides an amazing atmosphere for strengthening the form. (Also throughout the TTCS all instructors, beginner, continuing, and advanced, are volunteers).
Again, on the topic of the martial applications of the moves, the 108-forms won’t be taught for fighting. A lot of the moves are performed in bow stance, and things like external harmonies between hands and feet, elbows and knees, turning at the hip, pushing into the ground for ‘rooting’/outward reaching with intention, etc etc… are emphasized, but since the nature of Mr. Moy’s form is to cultivate better health, the stretching present in these main 108 moves wouldn’t be too appropriate for martial arts (clearly).
Another misconception is a statement to the authenticity of the actual ‘Taoist’ content. The TTCS doesn’t force the philosophy in your face. You get involved with the Fung Loy Kok temple if you want to! They have a strong affiliation with temples in China/Hong Kong like the Guangdong Chi Wo Tan (not to mention the first Fung Loy Kok temple was on the grounds of the Yuen Yuen Institute in Hong Kong), and get visits from monks who perform Taoist chants, etc in the temples on special events. There are also regular lunar ceremonies and other Taoist/Confucian/Buddhist rituals. It’s not like if you want to learn tai chi, all of a sudden you’re wearing Confucian robes haha. It’s a volunteer thing to get exposure to a lot of the more overtly spiritual practices and meditation techniques.
The final misunderstanding is that the TTCS is opposed to other forms of tai chi. They just choose not to practice other forms in their halls out of respect for Mr. Moy, and to keep his form unchanged. I have basic experience in Chen and Sun styles, and that never interfered with my learning of Taoist Tai Chi. I just kept my other practices outside of my work with the TTCS. I’ve never personally witnessed any resentment towards other forms. If you want to get a good idea of what the 108 moves look like, check out the video of Mr. Moy performing the set on youtube. I wouldn’t rely on pictures or other videos around the internet personally, because I see a lot of them that misrepresent the style and break basic principles (overextending the knee, in-stepping, unnatural tension in the back, squeezing in the chest/shoulders when extending arms forward, etc).
Anyways, I just thought I’d let you all see some insight into the TTCS based on THE FACTS from someone who has experience with the art and some others. I never understand why the TTCS gets ‘hate’ just because it’s new and not traditional. They’re a harmless, almost completely volunteer-based group that have introduced thousands of westerners to tai chi and other internal arts.
Another good element is the TTCS Health Recovery Program. I’ve volunteered with a few and you see all walks of life there. People with physical and mental illnesses get a lot of relief from the art. It’s really nice to see that. Seeing people become more in touch with themselves and find balance is something that should be present in all authentic tai chi, am I right? ;b
And if you don't think this modern qigong/lok hup-influenced form is true tai chi, so be it. I can understand that view, but there are some undeniable physical and psychological/spiritual benefits that come from this practice when you get exposure to the depth of it.
His advanced students often proceeded to his more in-depth teaching of lok hup.Mr. Moy’s organizations were: the Taoist Tai Chi Society, his Taoist temple Fung Loy Kok Institute that he founded with Mui Ming-To and Tang Yuen Mei, and the Gei Pang Lok Hup Academy created in memory of his Master Liang Zipeng (a student of Wu Yi Hui). Their popularity grew to an international level, and after his death, they amalgamated into one big umbrella group.
The first misconception I’ve heard about the TTCS is that instructors are not well trained. From what I’ve seen, this is based on people only being exposed to beginner instructors. With the Taoist Tai Chi Society, a simplified set is taught to beginners for 3-4 months, and then they proceed to a ‘continuing class,’ where their form is refined and improved over time. Beginner instructors are often instructors-in-training, and have been doing tai chi for about 5 years (on average). All of the continuing class instructors I’ve seen, however, have upwards of 20 years of experience. In continuing classes, foundations are really emphasized, and the learning, as with any form of tai chi, is ever-deepening on physical and internal/meditative levels. In continuing class, depending on your instructor, certain techniques like push hands are used to develop your skill and balance. On one hand, a lot of practitioners learn tai chi with the TTCS for a good stretch and to become more supple, socialize, and have a nice place to go on a Saturday morning, but the benefits become more intense the more you put into it. Having practiced at the Quiet Cultivation International Centre in Canada, I got a lot of exposure to the deeper side of the organization and the art. We get a lot of workshops and lessons from advanced instructors - direct students of Mr. Moy - who have been practicing for around 40 years. There are lessons for tai chi sword, sabre, lok hup ba fa, and even xingyiquan at the International Centre, and (in addition to the short-term workshops and occasional long-running courses) these arts are reviewed after almost every regular tai chi class among groups of practitioners. A common question: are these arts practiced ‘martially’? The emphasis is on health, but there are obvious applications that are demonstrated (you won’t know how to swing a sabre around properly without having an understanding the purpose, despite the importance being the meditative ‘extension of the spine’ instead of combat. Intention is an important part of learning the moves of course). The sabre form is probably my favourite. There are a lot of parallels to Yang style actually, especially when you see the subtleties and flow in the movements of really experienced practitioners.
So I’m not completely sure how in-depth the practice of the art goes in more remote, satellite locations around the world, but I know the International Centre provides an amazing atmosphere for strengthening the form. (Also throughout the TTCS all instructors, beginner, continuing, and advanced, are volunteers).
Again, on the topic of the martial applications of the moves, the 108-forms won’t be taught for fighting. A lot of the moves are performed in bow stance, and things like external harmonies between hands and feet, elbows and knees, turning at the hip, pushing into the ground for ‘rooting’/outward reaching with intention, etc etc… are emphasized, but since the nature of Mr. Moy’s form is to cultivate better health, the stretching present in these main 108 moves wouldn’t be too appropriate for martial arts (clearly).
Another misconception is a statement to the authenticity of the actual ‘Taoist’ content. The TTCS doesn’t force the philosophy in your face. You get involved with the Fung Loy Kok temple if you want to! They have a strong affiliation with temples in China/Hong Kong like the Guangdong Chi Wo Tan (not to mention the first Fung Loy Kok temple was on the grounds of the Yuen Yuen Institute in Hong Kong), and get visits from monks who perform Taoist chants, etc in the temples on special events. There are also regular lunar ceremonies and other Taoist/Confucian/Buddhist rituals. It’s not like if you want to learn tai chi, all of a sudden you’re wearing Confucian robes haha. It’s a volunteer thing to get exposure to a lot of the more overtly spiritual practices and meditation techniques.
The final misunderstanding is that the TTCS is opposed to other forms of tai chi. They just choose not to practice other forms in their halls out of respect for Mr. Moy, and to keep his form unchanged. I have basic experience in Chen and Sun styles, and that never interfered with my learning of Taoist Tai Chi. I just kept my other practices outside of my work with the TTCS. I’ve never personally witnessed any resentment towards other forms. If you want to get a good idea of what the 108 moves look like, check out the video of Mr. Moy performing the set on youtube. I wouldn’t rely on pictures or other videos around the internet personally, because I see a lot of them that misrepresent the style and break basic principles (overextending the knee, in-stepping, unnatural tension in the back, squeezing in the chest/shoulders when extending arms forward, etc).
Anyways, I just thought I’d let you all see some insight into the TTCS based on THE FACTS from someone who has experience with the art and some others. I never understand why the TTCS gets ‘hate’ just because it’s new and not traditional. They’re a harmless, almost completely volunteer-based group that have introduced thousands of westerners to tai chi and other internal arts.
Another good element is the TTCS Health Recovery Program. I’ve volunteered with a few and you see all walks of life there. People with physical and mental illnesses get a lot of relief from the art. It’s really nice to see that. Seeing people become more in touch with themselves and find balance is something that should be present in all authentic tai chi, am I right? ;b
And if you don't think this modern qigong/lok hup-influenced form is true tai chi, so be it. I can understand that view, but there are some undeniable physical and psychological/spiritual benefits that come from this practice when you get exposure to the depth of it.
