Different Kind of Sidekick

Tony Dismukes

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That was a front kick, not a side kick, but OK.
The Muay Thai teep doesnt fit neatly into the karate/TKD front kick vs side kick categorization scheme. Check out the video by Gabriel Varga in the original post to see the kick which is being discussed here. (BTW, if you arent familiar with Gabriel Varga, hes a 6x world champion in kickboxing. I can guarantee you that hes familiar with kicking hard.)
 

dvcochran

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The Muay Thai teep doesnt fit neatly into the karate/TKD front kick vs side kick categorization scheme. Check out the video by Gabriel Varga in the original post to see the kick which is being discussed here. (BTW, if you arent familiar with Gabriel Varga, hes a 6x world champion in kickboxing. I can guarantee you that hes familiar with kicking hard.)
I LOVE the Teep kick and use it often. It is a great and rather easy kick to learn/use.
I think it is more of a terminology thing for TKD. It is used a lot but often called a 'mid-level front kick' or such.
 

RTKDCMB

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The Muay Thai teep doesnt fit neatly into the karate/TKD front kick vs side kick categorization scheme.
It's a bit like a front push kick or front thrust kick, depending on the impetus. The thrust is usually performed with the heel. I once had to kick in a door at a train station (It was stuck closed and some security guards were trying to kick it open, so I volunteered). Definitely had to use the heel for that.
 

drop bear

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That was a front kick, not a side kick, but OK.
It doesn't matter if it is a front kick as we were discussing whether or not the ankle could hold up to a kick that has enough power to hurt someone.

The delivery system isn't the question. Sort of.

But here is a much more side on teep.

Now the reason you might sometimes teep, sometimes side kick and sometimes side teep is so the other guy has to make all these different choices depending on what you are throwing. And that throws him off.

And basically jamming your big toe in to a guys liver doesn't really have to be all that hard. So you can snap ball of foot kicks out fast and they really hurt people.

I do the front teep mostly and I use it to punish people in sparring. But the side kick would work just as well for that job.
 
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skribs

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It doesn't matter if it is a front kick as we were discussing whether or not the ankle could hold up to a kick that has enough power to hurt someone.

The delivery system isn't the question. Sort of.

But here is a much more side on teep.

Now the reason you might sometimes teep, sometimes side kick and sometimes side teep is so the other guy has to make all these different choices depending on what you are throwing. And that throws him off.

And basically jamming your big toe in to a guys liver doesn't really have to be all that hard. So you can snap ball of foot kicks out fast and they really hurt people.

I do the front teep mostly and I use it to punish people in sparring. But the side kick would work just as well for that job.

1:45 - The first side teep he throws here glances off. That's my only issue with it. It seems like it's easier to get a glancing blow when you're using the ball of the foot instead of the heel. Even moreso for a side kick than a front kick. A few of the later kicks you can see the foot is cushioning the blow.

Of course, that further dispels the notion that the foot can't take it. If anything, it's going to absorb some of the force, and be safer for you to throw.
 

drop bear

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1:45 - The first side teep he throws here glances off. That's my only issue with it. It seems like it's easier to get a glancing blow when you're using the ball of the foot instead of the heel. Even moreso for a side kick than a front kick. A few of the later kicks you can see the foot is cushioning the blow.

Of course, that further dispels the notion that the foot can't take it. If anything, it's going to absorb some of the force, and be safer for you to throw.

They do different jobs.
 

dvcochran

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1:45 - The first side teep he throws here glances off. That's my only issue with it. It seems like it's easier to get a glancing blow when you're using the ball of the foot instead of the heel. Even moreso for a side kick than a front kick. A few of the later kicks you can see the foot is cushioning the blow.

Of course, that further dispels the notion that the foot can't take it. If anything, it's going to absorb some of the force, and be safer for you to throw.
"Dirty Dog Said:
Now the reason you might sometimes teep, sometimes side kick and sometimes side teep is so the other guy has to make all these different choices depending on what you are throwing. And that throws him off.

And basically jamming your big toe into a guys liver doesn't really have to be all that hard. So you can snap ball of foot kicks out fast and they really hurt people.

I do the front teep mostly and I use it to punish people in sparring. But the side kick would work just as well for that job."


The guy in red was using the side teep to chop the guy down. He threw it something like 20 times, for several reasons.
1.) As a defensive tool to keep the guy in blue off of him. Blue was relentless at moving forward, making a teep, or any front leg kick very effective, and making it easy to maintain space.
If you watch toward the end of the video red would hold his leg out after the kick. Literally holding blue at a legs length distance very easy. You could see how gassed blue was getting and that red was kind of playing him at this point, letting blue beat himself.
2.) Power efficiency. Red had the match in hand from the start of the video. He was conserving energy the whole time with the teep.
3.) It was cool to watch how red would choose foot position to effect the force of the kick. Some of the teep's had more effective impact than others.
4.) Almost all of the kicks are a modified side kick. If you notice, most of the body is still forward biased. Not everyone has the body dexterity to make this work as well as red does.

I found it to highlight blue's limited experience to Not parry the side teep and work around it, especially considering how much red was using it.

As far as the glancing blow, it happens. Red obviously saw the merit of the side teep given how many times he continued to throw it. I do think red let off the gas which could explain some of the cushioning you mentioned.
I fully agree that the foot can take teeps well. Whether thrown with the ball of the foot or the heel.

In the black and white video the head movement was Awesome! The knockout was all about timing to make the other guy run into the punch more than power in the punch.

In the female fighter's portion of the video, that is what we call a classic cross over side kick. Not a teep Perse because there is forward motion created by the back leg. Like the explanation said, it is a low percentage kick put the power generation is at maximum so it has a ton of merit.
 

Dirty Dog

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"Dirty Dog Said:
Now the reason you might sometimes teep, sometimes side kick and sometimes side teep is so the other guy has to make all these different choices depending on what you are throwing. And that throws him off.

And basically jamming your big toe into a guys liver doesn't really have to be all that hard. So you can snap ball of foot kicks out fast and they really hurt people.

I do the front teep mostly and I use it to punish people in sparring. But the side kick would work just as well for that job."
Ummmm..... No, I don't think I did.
 

Tony Dismukes

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I found it to highlight blue's limited experience to Not parry the side teep and work around it, especially considering how much red was using it.
Whats really impressive is that Samarts opponent in that video was another high level champion. Making a high level opponent look inexperienced takes remarkable skill.
 

drop bear

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Dirty Dog, Drop bear Its a two word screen name beginning with a d and referencing a type of mammal. You might as well be the same person. :)
We are twins in real life.
 

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Ji Yuu

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I tried this out a bit on a BOB. I don't like the ball of the foot for this reason: the foot flexes off of the centerline. With a front kick, the foot flexes up, which is still on the centerline. If you do a roundhouse with the ball of the foot (which I don't recommend), the foot flexes into the kick. With the side kick, your foot is flexing away from the centerline.

It reminds me somewhat of kicks that slide across the chestguard instead of piercing into it.
When you say, "roundhouse kick with the ball of the foot," are you saying that you are pointing the foot with toes pulled back? Because I do roundhouse kicks with my whole foot pulled back to break boards using the ball of foot.
 

dvcochran

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When you say, "roundhouse kick with the ball of the foot," are you saying that you are pointing the foot with toes pulled back? Because I do roundhouse kicks with my whole foot pulled back to break boards using the ball of foot.
This is one of the things that make the roundhouse the 'utility' kick. It can be modified and used in more ways than any other kick. I hope everyone is being shown the alternative ways to throw the kick and what you can do with/off them.
 

Ji Yuu

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This is one of the things that make the roundhouse the 'utility' kick. It can be modified and used in more ways than any other kick. I hope everyone is being shown the alternative ways to throw the kick and what you can do with/off them.
When I teach any kick, I eventually include all variations I know. Totally agree with you.
 

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