Diferences between L. Ting's & W. Cheung's style of Wimg Chun

[nontas]

Is anybody who stydied both these 2 styles?

 

[EternalSpringtime]

I studied with the EWTO side of IWTA (Leung Ting). The thing about William Cheung is that he teaches the "Real traditional Wing Chun" as he always states. I think that Wing Chun is not a style but more than some concepts to be applied with the minimum moves. so I really want to know if anyone had trained with the Cheung lineage and can tell us the difference between Cheung's Wing Chun and other Sifus.

As far as Leung Ting's organization, I can say it's very well organized in the way of training. The only problem lies within the large size of the organization, in which like most big organizations, quality sometimes gets lost from a Sifu to a certain student. That's why my advice is to go to Germany or Hong Kong to get the knowledge from the top instructors.

 

[Longzhua]

EternalSpringtime, I totally agree.
William Cheung is a self appointed grandmaster and nothing else. I find it funny and sometimes demising to the real Wing Chun community that he still spreads his ******** about. But what can you expect, he just wants the money..

Longzhua

 

[almost a ghost]

I've been watching a lot of video's of Cheung doing the forms he teaches and what not that are available on youtube. There's always different way of doing, but what he's doing is *way* different. While one instructor may teach a form different way, the overall structure and principals are still the same, but Cheung's movements seem foreign and highly questionable.

- Sil lum tao

- Chum Kiu

- Biu Gee

- Wooden Dummy

- Pole Form

- Knife form

If you go through those videos, you'll see that what he's doing differs vastly from what his kung fu brothers teach. Especially the knife form which if anything looks more like some kind of wushu form than wing chun.

 

[gblnking]

I don’t know William Cheung; I’ve never personally trained with him. But I have trained under his “style” of Wing Chun. My former teacher’s teacher trained directly from him. He then in turn taught my teacher. I’ve seen videos of both my former teacher and his teacher training under William Cheung. From what I was taught it was very different from what I had known Wing Chun to be. (I trained a long time ago under a different Sifu) I won’t criticize my former teacher, he was top notch. The quality of his movements and techniques were as thorough as you get. His attention to detail was second to none. But I think that the style that he was teaching was lacking a lot in what Wing Chun is.
I had the opportunity to train with his teacher (the guy that trained under William Cheung) and found him to be nothing but a thug. My two-day seminar was nothing short of a long lesson in survival. Some may think that’s excellent training but not me. I was there to learn not be bullied around. I doubt William Cheung advocated this kind of training being taught under his name. The style as I learned it was a very “soft” style. Teaching the stance and the very basic movements repetitively, repetitively, repetitively.
I can’t criticize or hail the benefits of William Cheung’s style. All I can say is that it wasn’t what I was looking for in Wing Chun.
Which begs the question. What is good/correct Wing Chun? My experiences have shown me several very different versions of it.

 

[Longzhua]

What do you expect, give me X-amount of dollars and i'll make you a branch. SERIOUSLY... What rank do you want...
Remember he taUght BRUCE LEE,....
In his dreams................................

Longzhua...

 

[EternalSpringtime]

What do you expect, give me X-amount of dollars and i'll make you a branch. SERIOUSLY... What rank do you want...
Remember he taUght BRUCE LEE,....
In his dreams................................

Longzhua...

W.cheung was a friend of Bruce Lee. I am sure they trained together, but being his teacher!. I don't know. Bruce Lee learned Wing Chun from another Yipman student named Wong as I remember, of course not to forget GrandMaster Yipman himself.

 

[almost a ghost]

W.cheung was a friend of Bruce Lee. I am sure they trained together, but being his teacher!. I don't know. Bruce Lee learned Wing Chun from another Yipman student named Wong as I remember, of course not to forget GrandMaster Yipman himself.

I've also read that Wong Sheung Leung, one of Ip Man's top students, did teach a young Bruce Lee out of his kwoon. I don't think anybody is argueing that William Cheung did introduce Bruce Lee to Ip Man's school, but I doubt Bruce Lee got much face time with Ip Man before he became famous due to the way the school was run.

 

[EternalSpringtime]

I've also read that Wong Sheung Leung, one of Ip Man's top students, did teach a young Bruce Lee out of his kwoon. I don't think anybody is argueing that William Cheung did introduce Bruce Lee to Ip Man's school, but I doubt Bruce Lee got much face time with Ip Man before he became famous due to the way the school was run.

You are absloutely true. I mentioned GM Yipman's name just to what I saw in pictures of him and Bruce Lee. As to the development of JKD. Bruce Lee always was inspired by Wong as I heard.

Wong Shun-Leung saught what it effective since he faught many street fights to prove Wing Chun effectivness. I heard that Bruce Lee learned alot from him, but Wong always gave the full credit to Lee. I don't know the details, but as for William. I am more than sure they at least practised Wing Chun together.

As far as GM Yipman. I think he was at an old age at that time. Most of the teachings were by his senior students. This as I know includes Leung ting which trained Wing Chun from Yipman's first student Master Leung Sheung.

 

[almost a ghost]

I have heard and read different things about Leung Ting's training at the school. I've never heard of him training directly under Wong Sheung Leung, and have seen Leung's name listed as a student under his uncle Leung Shan in some org charts.

Either way, I'm always impressed with the videos of seen of him moving.

 

[EternalSpringtime]

I have heard and read different things about Leung Ting's training at the school. I've never heard of him training directly under Wong Sheung Leung, and have seen Leung's name listed as a student under his uncle Leung Shan in some org charts.

Either way, I'm always impressed with the videos of seen of him moving.

Yea. I said he trained under Leung Sheung, GM Yipman's first disciple in HK. Wong Shun-Leung is different.

 

[larry]

Hi. I have studied under two sifus. The forms had slight differences, but they were still the same in content. William Cheung's forms have similar techniques, but none of them are executed the same as the forms that I learned. If Leung Ting's student is your option then that may be better for you. I'd be interested to know who you are going to learn from. Take care

 

[ArtesMagae]

I am brand new to the forum so be gentle!

I have been training in Grandmaster Cheung's Traditional Wing Chun for about a year now. The near constant conflict between the Wing Chun I learn and all other forms is frustrating. I find it frustrating because so very little real information seems to be out there. For instance, in this very thread, like all others on this topic I have seen, the discussion quickly becomes the bashing of William Cheung or another Wing Chun "personality". I have heard people's complaints about the man. But just this once, lets try to talk about the different styles.

What IS the difference? I admit I know very little about any other Wing Chun styles and martial arts in general. I have never trained in another martial art before. But from what I gather from my year of TWC training and seeing videos and discussions on other styles, the main difference I see is in the footwork.

In TWC you are taught to get off the line of attack as soon as possible. To step to the outside of your attacker while blocking, ending up facing your block with the attacker's shoulder in line with the center of your chest. This makes a T shape out of you and the attacker.

Is this the same in other forms of Wing Chun? Hopefully we can get some discussion at which point I have other questions to ask about the various styles of Wing Chun.

 

[larry]

In wing chun, the proper block on your own center line or the line of the incoming attack will deflect the attack. This changes your opponent's line and gives you control of the center line. Initiating the three angle walk to place yourself at the opponent's side, such as in the first part of the mook jong is just another technique used in wing chun to break in and collapse your opponent's structure. This is one of many tecniques used in wing chun. If you practice good structure, then these techniques will work. If your structure is weak then your blocks and attacks will be useless. congratulations in joining the wing chun family.

 

[brocklee]

In wing chun, the proper block on your own center line or the line of the incoming attack will deflect the attack. This changes your opponent's line and gives you control of the center line. Initiating the three angle walk to place yourself at the opponent's side, such as in the first part of the mook jong is just another technique used in wing chun to break in and collapse your opponent's structure. This is one of many tecniques used in wing chun. If you practice good structure, then these techniques will work. If your structure is weak then your blocks and attacks will be useless. congratulations in joining the wing chun family.

Very true Larry. These are the fundamentals which I am taught and live by. While I was under leung ting line they taught me to use the incoming force to rotate me off the center line and with the unused hand throw an attack. I believe this breaks one of the wing chun basics and that's one of the reasons I left the school.

 

[CheukMo]

. The style as I learned it was a very “soft” style. Teaching the stance and the very basic movements repetitively, repetitively, repetitively.

The very little amount of time that I actually studied in a Mo Gwoon was in this fashion. The "lineage" was Leung Seung's. I would still be studying there if I were able to afford the travel.

 

[CheukMo]

Which begs the question. What is good/correct Wing Chun? My experiences have shown me several very different versions of it.

That is the same situation in Jeet Kune Do. Different people were taught different things at different times. I hate the criticism involved in (different styles of) WC and JFJKD, the only people who should be criticized are the frauds, and it's hard to find out which are frauds and which are not.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Exactly. A lot of people judge wing chun on lineage when technically it might be better to judge it by practicality!!

I always tell my students - if you ask a question about the style and your instructor cannot answer, leave!!

Kamon was developed through Sam Kwok and Ip Chun and other good instructors, but Master Chan has developed further parts to the style to allow for clinching and long distance fighting

 

[gblnking]

Exactly. A lot of people judge wing chun on lineage when technically it might be better to judge it by practicality!!

Kamon was developed through Sam Kwok and Ip Chun and other good instructors, but Master Chan has developed further parts to the style to allow for clinching and long distance fighting

If I go to a Tae Kwan Do school I'm going to learn Tae Kwan Do. If I leave that school and go to another Tae Kwan Do school I'm going to learn virtualy the same thing. Obviously there will be small differances but a front kick is a front kick in the overall style.
I have had three experiences with Wing Chun.

1) A real world experience.
2) A school I trained at for a year
3) 10 years later I trained at another school for a few years

There was maybe 50% similarities between the three experiences. The hand movements where fairly similar but the foot work was completely differant, the movement was completely differant, and for the two schools the teaching methodology was very very differant.

This isn't intended to be an attack on Wing Chun. I really enjoyed my times training and my experience of the real world situation confirmed to me the validity of its aggressive nature but is Wing Chun a style unto itself or does one need to add aspects of other martial arts to it (or the other way around) to keep it a viable style?

 

[CheukMo]

If I go to a Tae Kwan Do school I'm going to learn Tae Kwan Do. If I leave that school and go to another Tae Kwan Do school I'm going to learn virtualy the same thing. Obviously there will be small differances but a front kick is a front kick in the overall style.
I have had three experiences with Wing Chun.

1) A real world experience.
2) A school I trained at for a year
3) 10 years later I trained at another school for a few years

There was maybe 50% similarities between the three experiences. The hand movements where fairly similar but the foot work was completely differant, the movement was completely differant, and for the two schools the teaching methodology was very very differant.

Would you tell us which lineage or organization is related with each?

This isn't intended to be an attack on Wing Chun. I really enjoyed my times training and my experience of the real world situation confirmed to me the validity of its aggressive nature but is Wing Chun a style unto itself or does one need to add aspects of other martial arts to it (or the other way around) to keep it a viable style?

It is both a style and a set of principles. I don't think WC would need anything added to it to be a viable streetfighting art. People are totally enraptured by MMA today, but it is no more "reality" fighting than is boxing. There are still rules that would not exist on the street. How many people are going to try to "shoot in" for a takedown on concrete or asphalt?