DHS Allowed To Take Laptops Indefinitely

[Bob Hubbard]

DHS Allowed To Take Laptops Indefinitely

Posted by kdawson on Friday August 01, @08:08AM
from the reasonable-expectation dept.

andy1307 writes with a Washington Post story giving details of Department of Homeland Security policies for border searches of laptops and other electronic devices (as well as papers). (We have been discussing border searches for a while now.) DHS says such procedures have long been in place but were "disclosed last month because of public interest in the matter," according to the article. Here is a link to the policy (PDF, 5 pages). "Federal agents may take a traveler's laptop or other electronic device to an off-site location for an unspecified period of time without any suspicion of wrongdoing, as part of border search policies the Department of Homeland Security recently disclosed. Also, officials may share copies of the laptop's contents with other agencies and private entities for language translation, data decryption, or other reasons, according to the policies, dated July 16 and issued by two DHS agencies, US Customs and Border Protection and US Immigration and Customs Enforcement... DHS officials said that the newly disclosed policies — which apply to anyone entering the country, including US citizens — are reasonable and necessary to prevent terrorism... The policies cover 'any device capable of storing information in digital or analog form,' including hard drives, flash drives, cell phones, iPods, pagers, beepers, and video and audio tapes. They also cover 'all papers and other written documentation,' including books, pamphlets and 'written materials commonly referred to as "pocket trash..."'"

• Read More...Slasshdot

 

[shesulsa]

****in' wow, man.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

My favorite art "Federal agents may take a traveler's laptop or other electronic device to an off-site location for an unspecified period of time without any suspicion of wrongdoing,"

Mmmmm. Nice Ipod....I'll just hold on to that, you'll get it or something resembling it but non functional back one of these years. No, no reason, just hand it over and I might even let you make your flight.


DHS doesn't seem to need "Probable Cause", but can operate "at whim".

 

[jkembry]

My favorite art "Federal agents may take a traveler's laptop or other electronic device to an off-site location for an unspecified period of time without any suspicion of wrongdoing,"

Mmmmm. Nice Ipod....I'll just hold on to that, you'll get it or something resembling it but non functional back one of these years. No, no reason, just hand it over and I might even let you make your flight.


DHS doesn't seem to need "Probable Cause", but can operate "at whim".

Just another aspect of the knee-jerk reaction after 9/11 that needs to be looked at MUCH more closely. I wonder if this is part of the "Patriot Act"?

 

[Andrew Green]

How does this get around the 4th Ammendment? Or is that another casualty of the "war on terror"?

 

[Xue Sheng]

How does this get around the 4th Ammendment? Or is that another casualty of the "war on terror"?

:idunno:

maybe they are viewing as it is not an unreasonable searches just an unreasonable seizure. And it does say unreasonable search and seizure not unreasonable search or seizure.

Weak I know but a lot they are doing these days is.

 

[jkembry]

:idunno:

maybe they are viewing as it is not an unreasonable searches just an unreasonable seizure. And it does say unreasonable search and seizure not unreasonable search or seizure.

Weak I know but a lot they are doing these days is.

Perhaps...but that where the probable cause that Bob mentioned 'should' come into play.

 

[jks9199]

:idunno:

maybe they are viewing as it is not an unreasonable searches just an unreasonable seizure. And it does say unreasonable search and seizure not unreasonable search or seizure.

Weak I know but a lot they are doing these days is.

That's not how the 4th Amendment works. I'm not sure on this one; there's some case law I'd want to look up before I opine too much -- but I suspect that it's going to fall under border searches, or the idea that it's kind of a consent situation... You don't HAVE to fly or come into the country.

Like I said, there's some case law I need to review. My gut feeling is that you're going to see some clarification on that come down the pike very soon...

Of course, anyone else note the irony in the recent uproar over the Chinese putting spyware on phones in the light of this policy?

 

[arnisador]

Border patrols have always had very broad powers, but yeah, this'll be used in a corcive way--they know people need their computers.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Oohhh.... is that a new 3G IPhone? My kid always wanted one of those. We're gonna have to hold on to that for a while sir.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

It's an awesome thing that I don't need to fly to get done what needs doing in my life.

 

[Empty Hands]

DHS doesn't seem to need "Probable Cause", but can operate "at whim".

Don't you get it? WE ARE AT WAR, MAAAAN!

When will this madness end?

On another note, I think these policies are already affecting business travelers. I have heard about some businesses shipping laptops and other sensitive materials to the traveler's location rather than lose their sensitive data with no recourse to these types of searches.

 

[Ninjamom]

That's not how the 4th Amendment works. I'm not sure on this one; there's some case law I'd want to look up before I opine too much -- but I suspect that it's going to fall under border searches, or the idea that it's kind of a consent situation... You don't HAVE to fly or come into the country.

JKS, that is exactly my understanding of the rationale for this type of search/seizure.

jkembry, Andrew G., this has nothing to do with the Patriot Act and has always been allowed. However, I expect it might be applied more frequently now because of the 'war on terror'. The laws have to catch up to the newest technology, and the all-pervasive nature of data-storage (phones, iPods, Blackberries, handhelds/PDAs, etc.)

 

[Andrew Green]

So what is the justification for this? What do they think people might be smuggling in on a laptop, and why do they think if someone wanted to smuggle something electronic in to the country they would use a laptop and not a encrypted transmission? Is there any rule stating that if I have encrypted information on my laptop I have to give them the key? (od is that a automatic indefinate seizure if I don't?)

 

[Ninjamom]

What would happen if everyone crossed the border holding a flashdrive that contained nothing but random 1's and 0's? I wonder how much time/effort would be spent trying to 'decode' them?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

They would demand your keys, demand you decrypt the data, and if you refuse, make your life quite unhappy for a while.

 

[Cryozombie]

If all that was on it was 0's and 1's you could say sure thing, heres my key... and hand em a binary chart.

They can sort that out. LOL.

 

[Rich Parsons]

They would demand your keys, demand you decrypt the data, and if you refuse, make your life quite unhappy for a while.

While working at a previous company that did everything on workstations, I encrypted my home area as others were pointing to and referencing files I had there for my own use. I would get complaints if I modified or updated a file that was for my use only. HMMM????

But the amount of crap I got into for having encrypted data on their system was just mind boggling. Even after I decrypted it in front of them and it matched the last know save/backup they were never really sure if I was still hiding something or not.

 

[Rich Parsons]

In general I would ask for a receipt of the items taken. I would call my boss and let him know that it was being taken and by whom. If prohibited form making such a simple phone call or from getting a written receipt, I would find the nearest phone afterwards and phone book and call a press conference. Someone would show up for the ratings possibilities. But if they complied with my simpler requests of admitting they were taking my or company property and admitted to it in writing then I would smile and wave bye bye to product and then contact the appropriate legal person.

I have no problems with a Gas Chromatograph inspection of my electronics and bags. I have no problems with powering up and showing they work. Just remember that it takes time to bring it up and to shut it down. They need to understand that while they are taking up my time, if they are done with me I still have to secure the items again.

But under the recent violations of the US Constitution that empowers the DHS to do as they please, I fear for this country and the fear that is allowing people to take away the rights of the people. ( Note: I still believe that the people have responsibilities as well for being a citizen. )

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Until someone takes this seriously from a legal standpoint, as it stands right now the only way to be part of the solution is to not be part of the problem: if it is too far to drive, I won't go.(got most everything I need right here anyway). If flight is unavoidable, I will ship my electronics in advance to where I will go and no "revenge of the C students" TSA type will ever soil it with their hands.