Developing an "other side of yourself" and what I've gathered on it.

[MoldyCookie]

Maybe some of you combat sport athletes and self-defense enthusiasts can make a good sounding board.

Maybe you won't and I'll just look edgy as all hell. Idk. Let's see.

I was looking into some stuff by a Mr. Lee Morrison. One of the things he talks about is developing an internal alter ego who is more violent than yourself that you step into when you train/fight.

When I went into the gym the next day, I pulled a couple of the more experienced guys aside and asked them about it. I got two different answers, but ones that didn't necessarily contradict each other.

Guy #1: Said it comes from lots of rounds of sparring. Once you reach a point where your body/mind develope a "flow state," you start to see the fight as a game to win.

Guy #2: Said that it's built up gradually on the bags/mitts. But you have to do it right.. meaning treat the bags/mitts like a real opponent and like you're in a real fight. Slowly that act will become a part of you.

So.. putting it all together.

Hitting the bags/mitts creates the persona.. and then lots of sparring experience makes you able to bring that persona out.

That sound about right?

 

[drop bear]

There is no persona. There is just you. If you are scared. Then you fight scared.

Here is a third option. Go to the gym and train. Train when you are tired, train when you don't want to. Train when you are not in the mood.

Then when you have to do something that you are not really feeling up for. You do it anyway.

 

[hoshin1600]

The two guys you talked to didn't understand what Lee was talking about. And in all probability you didn't either. If you had you would have realized they were the wrong people to ask. If you want to understand what lee Morrison was talking about, go read psychologist Carl Jung about his concept of the shadow.

 

[Buka]

Go to the gym and train. Train when you are tired, train when you don't want to. Train when you are not in the mood.

If I had one wish in life for the future of all Martial Artists - that would be it, right there.

 

[MoldyCookie]

The two guys you talked to didn't understand what Lee was talking about. And in all probability you didn't either. If you had you would have realized they were the wrong people to ask. If you want to understand what lee Morrison was talking about, go read psychologist Carl Jung about his concept of the shadow.

Am I even gonna bother looking for Carl Jung's fight record?

Lemme go flip a coin.

 

[drop bear]

And by the way I think Lee Morrison over hypes the whole self defence romance.

 

[MoldyCookie]

And by the way I think Lee Morrison over hypes the whole self defence romance.

It's definitely possible.

EDIT: I misread what you said. No.. it's not possible. You can get attacked right now for breathing wrong. I refuse to understand how people think "situational awareness" makes any difference.

 

[jks9199]

It's definitely possible.

EDIT: I misread what you said. No.. it's not possible. You can get attacked right now for breathing wrong. I refuse to understand how people think "situational awareness" makes any difference.

Either you need to reasses where you spend your time, or you need to reassess how you deal with people. You're not all that likely to be attacked for "breathing wrong" unless your spending time in some seriously dumb places.

You're asking about what is sometimes called "flipping the switch." It comes from understanding yourself, and being able to shift between the social world into the asocial world. Unless and until you understand that difference -- you're playing games.

 

[MoldyCookie]

You're asking about what is sometimes called "flipping the switch." It comes from understanding yourself, and being able to shift between the social world into the asocial world. Unless and until you understand that difference -- you're playing games.

What's your take on how that understanding is developed?

 

[isshinryuronin]

Train when you are tired, train when you don't want to. Train when you are not in the mood.

At my age (71), this is most all the time. Yet, I do it. This is self-discipline. This is will. This is love of the path we have chosen. J.F. Kennedy said something like this: "We don't do things because they are easy. We do things because they are hard."

I have no school or students; I have no championship goals; I have nothing to prove to myself; I'm satisfied with my physical condition. So, why do I work out? Hell if I know! I suppose that after so many years it's become my persona. It's who I molded myself to be starting at age 15. To not work out feels like letting myself down. Most of life is overcoming ourselves.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

At my age (71), this is most all the time. ... why do I work out?

You may feel that you are 71 before you work out. After you have worked out, you will feel that you are 20 again.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You may feel that you are 71 before you work out. After you have worked out, you will feel that you are 20 again.

Except for the times when you feel like you're 100.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Except for the times when you feel like you're 100.

Many years ago, someone said, "At my 72 age, if I can sit, I don't want to stand. If I can lay down, I don't want to sit." I told him, "You should think if you can live, you don't want to die. After you die, you can sleep comfortably in your coffin as long as you want to."

We work out just because we want to live longer.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Many years ago, someone said, "At my 72 age, if I can sit, I don't want to stand. If I can lay down, I don't want to sit." I told him, "You should think if you can live, you don't want to die. After you die, you can sleep comfortably in your coffin as long as you want to."

We work out just because we want to live longer.

If I can run, I don't want to walk. If I can stand, I don't want to lay down. Taking the harder path, if you are able, is to delay, or at least, not acknowledge, the creeping onset of old age. Taking the easy path when you could be taking the harder is what makes 50 year olds old. Without challenge, there is no overcoming.

 

[Hyoho]

Maybe some of you combat sport athletes and self-defense enthusiasts can make a good sounding board.

Maybe you won't and I'll just look edgy as all hell. Idk. Let's see.

I was looking into some stuff by a Mr. Lee Morrison. One of the things he talks about is developing an internal alter ego who is more violent than yourself that you step into when you train/fight.

When I went into the gym the next day, I pulled a couple of the more experienced guys aside and asked them about it. I got two different answers, but ones that didn't necessarily contradict each other.

Guy #1: Said it comes from lots of rounds of sparring. Once you reach a point where your body/mind develope a "flow state," you start to see the fight as a game to win.

Guy #2: Said that it's built up gradually on the bags/mitts. But you have to do it right.. meaning treat the bags/mitts like a real opponent and like you're in a real fight. Slowly that act will become a part of you.

So.. putting it all together.

Hitting the bags/mitts creates the persona.. and then lots of sparring experience makes you able to bring that persona out.

That sound about right?

Not really. If you have no fighting ability you are wasting your time unless is just pleasurable pastime.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

There is no persona. There is just you. If you are scared. Then you fight scared.

Here is a third option. Go to the gym and train. Train when you are tired, train when you don't want to. Train when you are not in the mood.

Then when you have to do something that you are not really feeling up for. You do it anyway.

Very well said!

 

[lklawson]

Maybe some of you combat sport athletes and self-defense enthusiasts can make a good sounding board.

Maybe you won't and I'll just look edgy as all hell. Idk. Let's see.

I was looking into some stuff by a Mr. Lee Morrison. One of the things he talks about is developing an internal alter ego who is more violent than yourself that you step into when you train/fight.

When I went into the gym the next day, I pulled a couple of the more experienced guys aside and asked them about it. I got two different answers, but ones that didn't necessarily contradict each other.

Guy #1: Said it comes from lots of rounds of sparring. Once you reach a point where your body/mind develope a "flow state," you start to see the fight as a game to win.

Guy #2: Said that it's built up gradually on the bags/mitts. But you have to do it right.. meaning treat the bags/mitts like a real opponent and like you're in a real fight. Slowly that act will become a part of you.

So.. putting it all together.

Hitting the bags/mitts creates the persona.. and then lots of sparring experience makes you able to bring that persona out.

That sound about right?

Yes, but no.

When you hit a state of adrenal dump, your brain is not capable of functioning normally, making normal decisions and making normal risk assessments. It drops into the "fight or flight" state but that's an inaccurate description. It falls into a primal state that I call Robodroid. Robodroid is not capable of "thinking" per se. It ONLY does what you have already "programmed" it to do. If you have not programmed it to do anything, it may freeze, or run, or flail wildly like a monkey on crack. Robodriod only runs programs and it only runs the programs you've fed it. It's stupid.

You program Robodroid by countless repetitions, preferably under increasing levels of stress. If your program is tag-type flicky sparring, that's what Robodroid will do in a fight.

The Will To Fight, the "Persona" as you call it, is something different. It is a way of giving yourself permission to do violence, a way to overcome the years upon years of social programming that you've been fed telling you to "be nice," "don't hit," and "violence is never the answer."

"On Combat" and "On Killing" by Grossman are what is usually recommended reading.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

The two guys you talked to didn't understand what Lee was talking about. And in all probability you didn't either. If you had you would have realized they were the wrong people to ask. If you want to understand what lee Morrison was talking about, go read psychologist Carl Jung about his concept of the shadow.

Jung's "Shadow" is an interesting metaphor but it isn't how it works in the neurological nuts and bolts.

Still, he was a pioneer and was thinking in new ways and we owe a debt to him for his work.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Am I even gonna bother looking for Carl Jung's fight record?

Lemme go flip a coin.

Good call. There's really nothing that psychology can inform us about the way people think.

 

[lklawson]

It's definitely possible.

EDIT: I misread what you said. No.. it's not possible. You can get attacked right now for breathing wrong. I refuse to understand how people think "situational awareness" makes any difference.

Then you also don't understand what "situational awareness" is.