Defensive Shotgun questions

[Skpotamus]

Mossberg 590A1 with Knoxx Spec Ops stock with the stock set short enough for my wife to use. We both hit the range regularly with it. We even went so far as to map out distances in our home and setup targets like you shooting in our home.

re ammo: I know it's a bit of a hornets nest, but we had a thread about birdshot vs buckshot a while back where ballistic gel testing data was posted. Birdshot didn't meet the FBI MINIMUM HANDGUN penetration standards from a distance of 3 yards, meaning that the individual pellets would have difficulty getting enough penetration to get to vital organs. http://www.shadonet.com/?cat=35

 

[Stick Dummy]

Thanks for posting the link on jello shooting.

BG is used as a controllable and replicable test medium. It does not exactly duplicate tissue or give perfect results.

That being said, I have sat on a couple autopsies and personally seen what your statements claim won't happen, happen.

Dead people with BIG HOLES blown in them by bird shots and wads as secondary projectiles causing secondary wounds.

Very cool shotgun setup and practice makes perfect!!!!

 

[lklawson]

re ammo: I know it's a bit of a hornets nest, but we had a thread about birdshot vs buckshot a while back where ballistic gel testing data was posted. Birdshot didn't meet the FBI MINIMUM HANDGUN penetration standards from a distance of 3 yards, meaning that the individual pellets would have difficulty getting enough penetration to get to vital organs.

After passing through a barrier.

The thing about the FBI standards is that they intended for the FBI and doesn't necessarily equate to valid civilian SD applications. And I'm not the first person to say so:

http://www.thegunzone.com/miami-ammo.html

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Blindside]

Remington 870 Express "home defense" model with mounted light, It is loaded with 00 buck and stock side saddle shell carrier has 3 00 buck and 3 one once slugs.

 

[Skpotamus]

:asian: I don't wanna bring another argument to this thread that's already been gone over before. Look at the data posted, look at the anecdotal stories and decide for yourself.

 

[sgtmac_46]

To make things even more complicated i'm not a fan of shot, in general, of any number, for a defensive shotgun.

While certain situations may dictate shot as a choice, i.e. an apartment building with thin walls, in general, i've of the firm belief that a shotgun should be loaded with a single 1oz projectiles. That makes the shotgun lethal and accurate from muzzle to approximately 100 yards.

 

[Deaf Smith]

If you are a serious firearms enthusiast you have probably selected a large bore shotgun for defense.

Did you choose a pump, auto, or double barrel and why?

How about ammuntion? Birdshot, Buckshot, or slugs?

Do you practice?

How do you practice?

Actually Stick I prefer my M1 Carbine. And I use Remington 110 gr SPs.

But yes I do have 'combat' shotguns. If that was my main house gun I'd use my Mossberg 500 Mariner, 18 inch barrel, which has a tac-star side saddle (4 shot) and bantam stock. Federal true-flite 12 gauge buckshot, which is made to hold together so you have a 12 inch pattern at 25 yards!!

Practice? I've been through basic and advanced shotgun courses by SDSI near Dallas. When I do practice I use my OTHER Mossie 500, a plain blue 18 incher that looks just like the Mariner except.. It’s blue!

I practice using birdshot with backstops most of the time. Practice includes pieing barricades, low light firing, and firing one or two rounds and reloading from the side saddle.

I also practice left handed by transitioning (it's a way to swap the shotgun from right to left quite quickly and very reliably.) And I also practice transitioning from shotgun to pistol using the underarm method as I do not use a sling on my shotguns.

I practice loading from belt loops for single shots using the overhand method for when I grab the cartridge with the base by my left thumb and underhand if the front of the cartridge is by my thumb.

There are other ways to practice but those I do as part of a ‘routine’ when I use my shottie.

Deaf

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Remington 870 Express with Vang Comp barrel, Xpress sights (which includes a short picattiny rail on the rear sight), oversized safety, stainless steel magazine follower.

I have modified the stock gun from Vang Comp to include an Mesa Tactical low tube Stock adapter with an Enidine Shot Shok recoil reducer, Magpul MOE stock, Mapgul MIAD Pistol grip, Mesa Tactical 8 shot side saddle, and Botach Picatinny rail forend.

In it I have Winchester 00 Buckshot, but am likely to replace it soon with Federal LE123 Low Recoil Flight control ammunition. Not really necessary with the Vang Comp Barrel, but what the hell, it costs the same as other rounds.

 

[Shin71]

I shoot at home what I shoot at work; an 870 pump with 00 buck (actually just picked this one up). Had I been issued something different then I probably would have ventured for something different.

 

[stonewall1350]

I am a big believer in shoot what you are comfortable with. The reason for this is because I am a hunter. And while I don't always do this hunting for challenge reasons, but when I am shooting for self defense or for the pot I always use my Remington 870. As a matter of fact I use the SAME 870 for hunting as a do for self defense. I leave the barrel plug in and load up 3 00 buck. I keep an XDSC 9mm loaded to 16 rounds in the night stand for a back up. But that 870 has killed MANY ducks, dove, turkey, hogs, and deer.

 

[elder999]

I think the British pioneered the use of shotguns for the jungle in Malaysia. Of course, the U.S. used shotguns in WWI-that's where my personal favorite comes from,the Winchester 1912.

Then, too, since my 590A1 has a bayonet lug, hearing the "rack" and then seeing that THING on the end, just showing it to someone very well could convince them to Sit Down And Be Quiet without a shot. (Between you and me, it's there more to dissuade any takeaway attempt than anything else, but yes, I have not forgotten my bayonet drills).

+1 for this. I had to "repel boarders"-er, crackhead burglars twice back in New York. Both times, the KERCHUNK of death, and "the voice," saying-loudly but rather calmly-Get out of my house or I will shoot you sent them running.

 

[BloodMoney]

Another Mossberg 590 owner here

I generally shoot bird and trap shot, but have a few 00 shells on the mantle piece in case. Not that youd really need em, as has been said just rack the pump action and shout "Get on the ground" with tactical torch on and 90% of burglars will comply quite nicely. Theres a reason its called The Persuader. its persuasive

I shoot as regularly as I can, which due to training isnt a hell of a lot, maybe once a month or so.

 

[chinto]

Mossberg 590A1.

ya that would be one of my first choices!

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally Posted by Skpotamus
re ammo: I know it's a bit of a hornets nest, but we had a thread about birdshot vs buckshot a while back where ballistic gel testing data was posted. Birdshot didn't meet the FBI MINIMUM HANDGUN penetration standards from a distance of 3 yards, meaning that the individual pellets would have difficulty getting enough penetration to get to vital organs.

After passing through a barrier.

The thing about the FBI standards is that they intended for the FBI and doesn't necessarily equate to valid civilian SD applications. And I'm not the first person to say so:

http://www.thegunzone.com/miami-ammo.html

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Lemnme tell you from some experience:

12g Birdshot from about 3 feet will pass cleanly thru a single layer of drywall, the 2" of space where the stud is SOME of it will penetrate the drywall on the other side and still have enough force to shatter a lightbulb, but none of it will then penetrate the drywall on the other side of the closet you just shot into... it will simply embed shallowly into the drywall panel...

And then you need to patch the wall. Oopsie.

 

[searcher]

Remmy 870 with #4 buckshot. I like the 27 pellet load best. I keep bird shot and turkey loads on my shellholder. If the need arises that the shotgun does not have enough reach. I will stop shooting with the shotgun and move to my M4. Hopefully if they are out of range, they are running away and my house is secure.

 

[Hudson69]

I picked up an 870 since that is what I carried on Patrol and what I use in the military (Reserves).

It is slightly modified; I have a three shot tube extension, ghost ring sights, side saddle for six rounds extra, a sling, screwed a short pic rail on the synthetic pump and put a surefire with clamp on that. The last thing I did extra was put a pistol grip collapsible stock on it so is feels more like my AR-15. I shoot it about five times a year and use 00 buck and slugs. I shoot my duty Glock a lot, my AR as often as I can and my 12 guage enough to feel proficient (not enough).

 

[chinto]

00 Buck is standard, if I for whatever unlikely reason *need* to reach out further, I can always drop in a rifled hollowpoint slug into the tube and have it be the next round shucked in.

Then, too, since my 590A1 has a bayonet lug, hearing the "rack" and then seeing that THING on the end, just showing it to someone very well could convince them to Sit Down And Be Quiet without a shot. (Between you and me, it's there more to dissuade any takeaway attempt than anything else, but yes, I have not forgotten my bayonet drills).

great choice.. could not swing the extra $100 for the 590. got a 500 riot instead ... but #4 buck and heavier is used to make sure you get penetration to a lethal depth. light bird like #6 can do it sometimes at point blank... but well if its that serious do not take chances

 

[chinto]

Lemnme tell you from some experience:

12g Birdshot from about 3 feet will pass cleanly thru a single layer of drywall, the 2" of space where the stud is SOME of it will penetrate the drywall on the other side and still have enough force to shatter a lightbulb, but none of it will then penetrate the drywall on the other side of the closet you just shot into... it will simply embed shallowly into the drywall panel...

And then you need to patch the wall. Oopsie.

yes but people have been shot at close range with light bird-shot and survived and even functioned .. if its that serious you are shooting a weapon at some one.. i would suggest you make sure you get the job done!