The Shotgun

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Tgace

Tgace

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Loading Techniques:

An important shotgun skill is reloading and loading of select munitions for different circumstances. Instead of rehashing the same information, check out this post from one of the better tactical instructors out there, Gabe Suarez...


http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-10817.html

Shotguns...now there's a subject close to my heart. Manipulations for them are very weapon dependent (870 techniques won't work with benelli, etc), so learn your gun.

Erick, you know about Hick! I thought I was the only one with too much time on my hands! Truly, his concept is pivotal in teaching us why we should keep things simple(...stupid).
In short, Hick was a researcher who determined that for a given stimulus, we would examine each possible learned solution (milliseconds each one, but it still adds up to time lost) before implementing the correct one. Therefore, train ONE METHOD ONLY (when possible).

The problem with taking this to extremes is that often one manipulation will not solve everything. I had one famous trainer mention that his catch-all pistol clearing-reloading drill would solve all pistol malfunctions. It worked pretty good (if a little slow) until we caused a Feedway Stoppage,.aka "double feed". All he could do was revert to the old way.

The only problem with emergency loading into the magazine is that it takes time. if you've left the action unlocked (stress does silly things to us), you may not be able to get that round into the tube. There's too many possibilities to discuss here, but you get the idea. Make sure your method works in ALL cases otherwise its not better, just different.

With 870s, which is what most of us seem to have on hand, I teach to keep loading the magazine as you need. If you need to do an emergency load (all out of ammo), your first indication will probably be a "click" instead of a bang. Solution - go to the pistol. If you don't have a pistol, and the adversary s close, you won't be able to load anything in time before he shoots you. Transition to medieval tactical principles and club the cr-p out of him with your shotgun. Crude, but effective.

If you will be doing an emergency load, I suggest loading through the port. I also do slug-select drills this way. With the former, remember that you'll be getting the "click" as an indication. This means you action is unlocked (and maybe partially open) which may prevent loading into the magazine.
Open the action (as you run like hell) and load the round on board. Oh, yes, you have to move. Standing and manipulating is not a good idea.

With the slug-select, I don't go in for leaving "dead spaces" in the magazine anymore. I used to follow the logic of leaving space to load the slug and so on, but reality of deployment tells us that buckshot will be the most prevalent round, and slugs relegated to special munitions status. (Unless you always have slugs in it which makes the entire issue moot).

To load the slug with the 870, open the action and simultaneously turn the weapon outboard (ejection port down). this will drop the chambered round and the next round that fed out of the magazine. Now load the slug as you would do an ejection port load. Yes you are dropping two for one, but you are loading the slug because buck is no longer usefull to you.

The Benelli shotguns make all this much easier. Those of you who have them know what I mean.

The final reality check - buckshot will fix 95% of all CQB problems you are likely to face...with ONE SHOT. Transitioning to slugs is a good skill to have on board, but like emergency loading, don't get carried away with it. In several shotgun shootings, some of which involved multiple rounds (both myself as well as other officers) no one ever neded to emergency load their shotgun. I did go to slug one time, but by the time it was done, the bad guy wasn't there to shoot :(

The one transition that I am aware of, the officer simply dropped the empty shotgun and went to his pistol (very hairy shooting involving multiple BGs, moving cars, etc.)

So, learn your weapon. Learn the best ways to deploy it (meaning simplest way), and make what you've learned reflexive so you don't piss off Mr. Hick who is a cousin of Mr. Murphy. :)
 

AC_Pilot

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Tgace is winning this discussion so far ;) I load my HOME defense shotguns (folding stocks on all of them, from Mossberg 500s to my SPAS 12) with a chamber full of #4 magnum.. that's 41 ct, .25 caliber pellets. Shots will be within 20 feet and will do great damage. The second round is the same stuff and after that the magazine is full of 00 buckshot in case things get ugly ;)

One cheap and effective sighting system not mentioned yet (or I did not see it) is the simple installation of a tritium front post. I use Trijicon. This is all I have along with a side mounted light with butt end pressure switch (which would only be used for target ID in the deepest darkness, just before pulling the trigger. my lead thumb can depress it easily) The bead is fast and gets you on target very well. And it's SIMPLE.

When outside with a shotgun in a rural environ, I can use slugs (I handload them) or 00 buckshot. The slugs I handload are .662 roundballs in sabots.
 

Gray Phoenix

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I've been around firearms for a couple decades, and from what I see here, Tgace knows his stuff. Good job
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, most shooters can barely find the "dangerous end". I'm not a fan of a shotgun for home defense but in a pinch, ya go with what ya got.
 

AC_Pilot

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Here's a few more random thoughts on the shotgun:

Great for up close.. say 25 yards. Beyond that you need a full choke even with 00 buckshot to get most of the pellets into a human torso.

Therefore when I step outside of my home it will usually not be with a shotgun. Unless I know it's point blank in the doorway or I have no time to obtain a carbine, and someone's life is in grave danger, say in my driveway.
Usually when stepping outside I cannot for sure determine the range I will be firing at.. even with my SPAS-12 with full choke , after 25 yards a pellet or two can miss, creating the possibility of injuring innocent bystanders or someone sitting at their kitchen table across the street. I tend to want to reach for a pistol calibered carbine (CAR15) or a .223/5.56 carbine when outside in an urban scenario. This allows precise targeting.

I do, as mentioned already, shoot slugs in my shotguns.. in fact I handload a mean .662 inch hand-hard-cast round ball that will group @ 8 to 10 inches at 100 yards in my SPAS-12 http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh14-e.htm the penetration is extreme, making it totally unsuitable for urban use.. but a nice general purpose self defense load out at my very rural land. It has the hard surface penetration of an SS109 5.56 round, and then some. This slug will penetrate three men before stopping and as stated above is totally unsafe for urban use, although it would almost certainly be a one shot stopper.. this slug load was developed by a hunter in Texas, from a Brown Bess musket ball mold, for large wild boar hunting with a shotgun. I saw it and was hooked, bought my own mold. The field reports of it's stopping power against even 500 lb hogs is amazing. Most drop in their tracks with good shot placement. It has a muzzle blast similar to 75% of a .50 cal BMG rifle. So, the shotgun can be a very effective weapon but be very careful about load selection. My recommendation for urban defenders, and especially apartment dwellers who will only make close up shots, would be a duplex load of steel shot. This is two different sizes of steel shot in one shell, and BBs with #5 or #6 is common. If you are a homeowner with some distance between you and the next home, I recommend Federal #4 magnum buckshot, at least for the round in the chamber and maybe the first few rounds. This is 41 ct, .25 caliber pellets! magnum in this case is not higher velocity but more pellet count. At any range inside of 15-20 yards it packs a serious whallop without over-penetration. Never use any buckshot larger than "0" for normal urban defense. 00 or 000 is rural ammo IMO. If one pellet hits your own family you may have to live with their death or permanent injury for the rest of your life, and if you harm an innocent stranger you will be taken to the cleaners in a civil suit $$$$$$$$$$$$

Optics? Well for carbines, yes, but only if there is a see thru set of iron sights. Shotguns are such close range weapons that I, personally like only a tritium front bead and snap shooting. if you use a red dot, be sure to use the Leupold mounts that allow see thru for your iron sights as backup.

For shotgun practice I like tossed clay pidgeons and old records, out at our favorite gravel pit. Sometimes one, sometimes two at once, as a surprise. Always immediately re-chamber the next round, the second the fired case is spent. Waste no time, train yourself with a pump action weapon (regardless of caliber) to always re-chamber instantly. Another fast shooting reactive target is bowling pins, set up 5 or ten at a time. Do not ever shoot birdshot or similar at bowling pins, the thermoplastic cases are so hard and resilient they will send shot back at you hard enough to sting you or even put your eye out! As a sidenote, .32 ACP JHPs also stick in the plastic and will not penetrate to the inner wood core. Carry a sufficient street caliber and keep .25s and .32s as backup pocket guns only. Never carry one as a primary weapon, not enough kinetic energy to stop a crazy or enraged attacker.
 

still learning

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Hello, I really enjoy the comments. Just a thought.... It would be nice if the made "shotguns" legal for everyday people for protection. The shotgun would shoot rubber bullets or bean bags or something that will drop the bad guy, and not kill them. "Who wants to go to jail". I like the one the shoots a net on the guy. Then again "stun gun" are good too, but not legal for every day carry in all states,plus the bad guys could get them too?

Oh well, bird hunting is fun too, here on the Big Island. The bird hunting is very good on the slopes of Mauna Kea Mountain. It also snow on the top today about 6". They are expecting up to 12" of snow later on. ....Boy it is getting cold?.........Aloha
 
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Tgace

Tgace

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Rubber bullets and bean bags/baton rounds can be easily fatal if used inappropriately.
 

KenpoTex

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still learning said:
Just a thought.... It would be nice if the made "shotguns" legal for everyday people for protection.
They are in most places. States like New York, Mass., MD, Cali, and Hawii are more restricive than most of the others.

still learning said:
The shotgun would shoot rubber bullets or bean bags or something that will drop the bad guy, and not kill them. "Who wants to go to jail".
TGace said: "Rubber bullets and bean bags/baton rounds can be easily fatal if used inappropriately." This is correct. My take on it is that these methods are sometimes usefull in law-enforcment when you have to subdue someone (OTOH, most of the situations that I've heard about where these methods were employed, IMO they should have just whacked the guy); However, as a civilian, for self defense, I prefer lead. You're not going to go to jail if you were justified in using lethal force (unless you do something stupid afterward).

still learning said:
I like the one the shoots a net on the guy.
:rolleyes: :roflmao:

still learning said:
Then again "stun gun" are good too, but not legal for every day carry in all states,plus the bad guys could get them too?
Stun guns are pretty much worthless. I've been zapped with one of the 300,000 volt models. Yeah it "smarted" a little but nothing you couldn't push through (besides that, the guy isn't going to just stand there and let you light him up). even Tazers are not effective all the time. I'd rather have a good flashlight or some other type of impact weapon to bash 'em with.
 

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