Dan ranks of high level coaches and competitors

chrispillertkd

Senior Master
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
2,096
Reaction score
106
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
OP
andyjeffries

andyjeffries

Master of Arts
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
1,921
Reaction score
232
Location
Stevenage, Herts, UK

Markku P

Blue Belt
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
287
Reaction score
1
Location
Finland, Helsinki
Interesting that the Koreans generally go for higher dan ranks, while the US coaches have stayed lower. I guess this shows there is a split in America between sport and martial art as some of the top US coaches don't bother getting higher martial art ranks.

I think this is a little misleading. I know some Korean coaches and former fighters who fought in the national team and they told me that they didn't do higher rank belt tests, they didn't know black belt forms etc. (they still got Kukkiwon certificates 4-6 dan ) Also many countries, schools etc. They don't demand Poomsae from their students and still they get Kukkiwon certificates.
 

Gorilla

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,759
Reaction score
44
Location
Las Vegas
Arlene Limas is 5th Dan and DePaul Graduate...

Mark Lopez is a College Graduate!!! 1st Dan (on the KKW Web Site)

Steven is a 4th Dan...(on the KKW Web site)

This is what in know for sure!!!!
 

puunui

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,378
Reaction score
26
What is the collective's opinion? Keep up with getting your Dan ranks (so your rank fits with your time in the art) when you're able or not bother once you have "what you need" (whatever you feel that may be).


For many, I don't believe they have the luxury of that choice.
 

Gorilla

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,759
Reaction score
44
Location
Las Vegas
Name Current
Poom/Dan Poom/Dan
No. Date of
Issuance
JEAN LOPEZ 1 Dan 05923967 2002-10-04
 

Gorilla

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,759
Reaction score
44
Location
Las Vegas
Name Current
Poom/Dan Poom/Dan
No. Date of
Issuance
JUAN MIGUEL MORENO 4 Dan 05041543 2003-04-05
 

Archtkd

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
973
Reaction score
99
Location
St. Louis, MO
I think this is a little misleading. I know some Korean coaches and former fighters who fought in the national team and they told me that they didn't do higher rank belt tests, they didn't know black belt forms etc. (they still got Kukkiwon certificates 4-6 dan ) Also many countries, schools etc. They don't demand Poomsae from their students and still they get Kukkiwon certificates.

True. In many developing countries yellow belts and green belts can get on the national Taekwondo because they learned how to kick and punch in numerous street fights. A good number of people who land on the national team of my native country Kenya couldn't pass the green belt test at our dojang here in the US and the dojangs of many MT posters. They don't know basics, poomsae, have never done kyupka or self defense. Basically they can fight, but they are not Taekwondoin. They wear Kukkiwon blackbelts awarded through the Kenya Taekwondo Association (with the assistance of the WTF) by virtue of their fighting record alone. The problem with this kind of system is you develop the type of "Taekwondoin" we saw kicking a referee (a master) in the mouth, with coaches urging them on, at the Beijing Olympics.

On a good note, things are getting better, at least in Kenya, with the increasing popularity of competion poomsae. It's making the KTA to begin emphasing better training in fundamanentals and developing better belt ranking systems. This was was being done in the earlier days of Taekwondo formation in Kenya in the late 1970s, to the 1980s when I started training in Taekwondo there. Things deteriorated in the 1990s when native Kenyans took the reigns of the KTA from the Korean pioneers.
 

KarateMomUSA

Black Belt
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
552
Reaction score
3
Quote: Originally Posted by Markku P
"I think this is a little misleading. I know some Korean coaches and former fighters who fought in the national team and they told me that they didn't do higher rank belt tests, they didn't know black belt forms etc. (they still got Kukkiwon certificates 4-6 dan ) Also many countries, schools etc. They don't demand Poomsae from their students and still they get Kukkiwon certificates."
True. In many developing countries yellow belts and green belts can get on the national Taekwondo because they learned how to kick and punch in numerous street fights. A good number of people who land on the national team of my native country Kenya couldn't pass the green belt test at our dojang here in the US and the dojangs of many MT posters. They don't know basics, poomsae, have never done kyupka or self defense. Basically they can fight, but they are not Taekwondoin. They wear Kukkiwon blackbelts awarded through the Kenya Taekwondo Association (with the assistance of the WTF) by virtue of their fighting record alone. The problem with this kind of system is you develop the type of "Taekwondoin" we saw kicking a referee (a master) in the mouth, with coaches urging them on, at the Beijing Olympics.
On a good note, things are getting better, at least in Kenya, with the increasing popularity of competion poomsae. It's making the KTA to begin emphasing better training in fundamanentals and developing better belt ranking systems. This was was being done in the earlier days of Taekwondo formation in Kenya in the late 1970s, to the 1980s when I started training in Taekwondo there. Things deteriorated in the 1990s when native Kenyans took the reigns of the KTA from the Korean pioneers.
This was 1 of the reaspns why I liked the ITF tournament system. They always did 4-5 categories in their world championships. In addition, the ITF Promotion Committee oversees all 4th Dan & above testings & their International Instructor Courses go all over the world.

ArchTKD is there ITF TKD in Kenya?
Who introduced TKD to Kenya?
 
OP
andyjeffries

andyjeffries

Master of Arts
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
1,921
Reaction score
232
Location
Stevenage, Herts, UK
Mark Lopez is a College Graduate!!! 1st Dan (on the KKW Web Site)

Steven is a 4th Dan...(on the KKW Web site)

How are you knowing their Kukkiwon dan certificate numbers to be able to find them on the Kukkiwon website? I thought you needed full name, date of birth and kukkiwon dan certificate number?

Thanks a lot for the info though, really appreciated.
 
OP
andyjeffries

andyjeffries

Master of Arts
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
1,921
Reaction score
232
Location
Stevenage, Herts, UK
I think this is a little misleading. I know some Korean coaches and former fighters who fought in the national team and they told me that they didn't do higher rank belt tests, they didn't know black belt forms etc. (they still got Kukkiwon certificates 4-6 dan ) Also many countries, schools etc. They don't demand Poomsae from their students and still they get Kukkiwon certificates.

That's a shame :-(
 
OP
andyjeffries

andyjeffries

Master of Arts
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
1,921
Reaction score
232
Location
Stevenage, Herts, UK
For many, I don't believe they have the luxury of that choice.

How so? Lack of higher grades willing to promote them? Lack of knowledge of the non-sport side (I'm sure we agree that there is no separation and Taekwondo is both)?
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
336
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Andy the problem is most sport people do not do any poomsae or one steps or any self defense, they only practice Olympic style sparring. That is why so many seperate sport/from tradition.

All you need is the person name as it appears on there certificate and there actual b-day to retrieve info from the KKW site.
 
OP
andyjeffries

andyjeffries

Master of Arts
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
1,921
Reaction score
232
Location
Stevenage, Herts, UK
Andy the problem is most sport people do not do any poomsae or one steps or any self defense, they only practice Olympic style sparring. That is why so many seperate sport/from tradition.

I know quite a few people/groups focus on Olympic sparring but I do find it weird to imagine a club/group that only does that and ignores poomsae/etc.

All you need is the person name as it appears on there certificate and there actual b-day to retrieve info from the KKW site.

Ahh OK, I thought you needed the KKW certificate number too... Thanks.
 

Archtkd

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
973
Reaction score
99
Location
St. Louis, MO
Quote: Originally Posted by Markku P
"I think this is a little misleading. I know some Korean coaches and former fighters who fought in the national team and they told me that they didn't do higher rank belt tests, they didn't know black belt forms etc. (they still got Kukkiwon certificates 4-6 dan ) Also many countries, schools etc. They don't demand Poomsae from their students and still they get Kukkiwon certificates."
This was 1 of the reaspns why I liked the ITF tournament system. They always did 4-5 categories in their world championships. In addition, the ITF Promotion Committee oversees all 4th Dan & above testings & their International Instructor Courses go all over the world.

ArchTKD is there ITF TKD in Kenya?
Who introduced TKD to Kenya?

That's a topic for another thread I'll post shortly (just for you) under the header Taekwondo in Kenya. There's very little ITF Tae Kwon Do in the East African nation, actually I only of one dojang that practices the styIe and its located near Nairobi. I know a number of Kenyan Taekwondoin who learned the ITF style overseas but reverted to the WTF style when they got back home.
 

puunui

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,378
Reaction score
26
How so? Lack of higher grades willing to promote them? Lack of knowledge of the non-sport side (I'm sure we agree that there is no separation and Taekwondo is both)?


Many people are limited by what their instructor is willing or able to do for them as far as Kukkiwon promotions go. I find that there is a real reluctance or inability out there to promote people past Kukkiwon 3rd or 4th Dan. Once you get to around that level, the difficulty grows exponentially with each dan.
 

d1jinx

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
17
Location
all-ova
Many people are limited by what their instructor is willing or able to do for them as far as Kukkiwon promotions go.

The biggest problem I saw for years were most of the Korean Seniors would not promote high dans and often when they did promote, they did not award a KKW even though they could have(I say Korean cause thats all i knew, there were no high ranking americans that could promote through KKW) . Today, it seems to be biting everyone in the butt. Everyone speaks of the gap in 6th and up Dans. I know a few that I could rely on, but I do not see the whole picture so I truly have no idea of how large or small that gap is.

What I do know, is that it is easier today to promote through KKW than it was during the mid 80's thru mid 2000s and many more american masters can do so...

I find that there is a real reluctance or inability out there to promote people past Kukkiwon 3rd or 4th Dan. Once you get to around that level, the difficulty grows exponentially with each dan.

It would be inability in my and a few close friends case. Beings 5th Dans, we would have to outsource if any of our students needed a 5th (not that I am there but s few of them are) I hope to have never come to that point.... I dont like relying on anyone and have been screwed in the past so I know how it feels. My only desire to achieve past 5th is so I can always have the ability if needed to promote past 4th... but I'm in no hurry!!!!
 

Gorilla

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,759
Reaction score
44
Location
Las Vegas
How are you knowing their Kukkiwon dan certificate numbers to be able to find them on the Kukkiwon website? I thought you needed full name, date of birth and kukkiwon dan certificate number?

Thanks a lot for the info though, really appreciated.


All you need is Nationality, Full Name and Date of Birth...A quick google search will give you that info!!!!!

The info I posted is accurate!
 
Top