Dan Anderson and MA-80.

[bloodwood]

I train and teach Modern Arnis

however my training is influenced by Balintawak and Sayoc Kali

It seems that Modern Arnis and Balintawak (at least on this forum) are the predominate systems here in the US while the other styles and systems are more Filipino based. Modern Arnis and Balintawak are there as well, as they were founded there.

This brings up another point I need clearing up.

Dan Anderson, You have said that you train Modern Arnis and MA-80. Are you training in two different systems, or is MA-80 just your curriculum in Modern Arnis? I am not familiar with the MA-80 system or how it differs from Modern Arnis. Does any one else besides Your students train in this system? I ask this because I've never heard it mentioned other than your postings here on Martial Talk, and I don't believe I've ever heard of a Grand Master Dan Anderson which would be the title for the founder of a system. You have also stated that the Professor gave his approval for this system back in 1996, so why wait until after his passing to unveil it. Any one has the right to start a new system and be it's GM. So if that's what it is, and that's who you are, then say that, and also where the system can be studied and how schools and students can sign on as members.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by bloodwood

Dan Anderson, You have said that you train Modern Arnis and MA-80. Are you training in two different systems, or is MA-80 just your curriculum in Modern Arnis? I am not familiar with the MA-80 system or how it differs from Modern Arnis. Does any one else besides Your students train in this system? I ask this because I've never heard it mentioned other than your postings here on Martial Talk, and I don't believe I've ever heard of a Grand Master Dan Anderson which would be the title for the founder of a system. You have also stated that the Professor gave his approval for this system back in 1996, so why wait until after his passing to unveil it. Any one has the right to start a new system and be it's GM. So if that's what it is, and that's who you are, then say that, and also where the system can be studied and how schools and students can sign on as members.

Blood,
I'll take this up point by point.
Modern Arnis 80 is my curriculum for what I have been taught by my teacher, GM Remy Presas, plus whatever additions, modifications, realizations etc., I have added. As my teacher is no longer with us, this is what I train as opposed to training in the IMAF or WMMA curriculums.

How does it differ?
On the surface, not much. The techniques are the techniques. Remy Presas taught in a "seminar mode." It was like firing a bucket of confetti at you and whatever stuck, stuck until the next seminar. I have distilled the concepts of what and how he taught and put them in a step by step manner so that ultimately, one could reach his level of skill. Very tall order but I firmly believe it can be done.

Does anybody out side of my school train in MA 80?
Not yet but I'm working on disseminating it outside my school.

GM Dan Anderson?
You haven't heard of a Grand Master Dan Anderson as there isn't such a beast as of yet. Martial arts wise, I grew up in the 1960's and I am loath to award myself any such title. Besides, I am not old enough to be a GM, I feel. If awarded such a title by my seniors then I would consider it.

Why wait to unveil it?
My own personal code of ethics forbade me to do anything which would cut across his lines of income or influence. That is not being a good student, in my way of thinking. Now that he is gone, neither would be cut across.

"Any one has the right to start a new system and be it's GM. So if that's what it is, and that's who you are, then say that, and also where the system can be studied and how schools and students can sign on as members."
Yes, I suppose so. The best way for someone to get an idea of what I do and then decide whether it's in their best interests to "sign on" with me is to either have me in for a seminar or get the Advanced Modern Arnis book which lays out the principles by which I teach.

I hope this answers you questions about Modern Arnis 80. If not, email me or call me. Either way would be fine. Will you be at the Symposium next year or at the WMAA Summer Camp? I don't know where you live so I would like to meet with you. Also, I will be in detrooit the weekend of the 14th of December at Jaye Spiro's for a karate and arnis seminar. If you are around that area, perhaps I'll see you there.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Founder, Modern Arnis 80

 

[bloodwood]

Dan,
The answers to my questions are for the martial artists, practitioners and organizations of the Filipino Martial Arts in general and not for my private or own personal knowledge. If you make statements on a public forum then that's where they should stay. I don't believe I am the only one that would be interested in your responses. So let's keep it public.

You have answered several questions but still not whether MA-80 is a new SYSTEM or Your Curriculum. There is quite a difference. As Founder MA-80, as you have often referred to yourself as, seems to imply that it IS a NEW SYSTEM and like it or not, accept it or not, YOU would be the Grand Master/10th degree and your system would be listed with others such as Modern Arnis, Balintawak, Doce Pares, Sayoc Kali and so on. If it is only your Curriculum for your school, that is a horse of a different color.

I have a curriculum for my school but I haven't founded anything, just my arranging of what I have learned from Professor, his system and others who have guided me.

If the Professor gave you his blessing that means he was not worried about you stealing his thunder or $$ or you SYSTEM competing with his. It doesn't float so well now as it would have, had it been done while Remy was still alive. But it's out there now.

SO, is it or isn't it?

 

[lhommedieu]

The issue that is currently being debated about "systems" may be compared, for example, to the way that Kajukenbo is currently taught throughout the world. As a versatile, adaptive art, Kajukenbo has been subject to several interpretations and there are now four "official" versions and several other "unofficial" versions (See http://www.kajukenbo.org/history/ for more about Kajukenbo).

The style that I practice, Estacada-Kajukenbo, preserves the essence of the Kajukenbo training method (Emperado style) within the foundation of my teacher's unique martial art. With respect to my teacher's interpretation of Kajukenbo, as well as other interpretations, we are still practicing "Kajukenbo" - but each interpretation has a quality that distinguishes it from another.

I'm an outsider to Modern Arnis, but I believe that Dan Anderson has answered questions about "Modern Arnis 80" in the context of a respect for Remy Presas and his art. He has stated that he practices both "Modern Arnis" and "Modern Arnis 80," and described "Modern Arnis 80" as not merely a compilation of MA techniques, but a reorganization of those techniques in order to create a systematic and progressive training curriculum. This is the only way that a martial art can continue to evolve (and survive).

To suggest that he is compelled to designate his curriculum as a system, or not, is to misread the spirit and intent of his post.

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hi Blood,

"You have answered several questions but still not whether MA-80 is a new SYSTEM or Your Curriculum. There is quite a difference. As Founder MA-80, as you have often referred to yourself as, seems to imply that it IS a NEW SYSTEM and like it or not, accept it or not, YOU would be the Grand Master/10th degree and your system would be listed with others such as Modern Arnis, Balintawak, Doce Pares, Sayoc Kali and so on. If it is only your Curriculum for your school, that is a horse of a different color."

Let's go over some definitions: system, "way of proceding, a method or set of procedures for achieving something"
curriculum, the subjects taught at an educational institution, or the elements taught in a particular subject"
Encarta World English Dictionary

I can see the confusion or lack of clarification of what Modern Arnis 80 is as I had a mis-definition of the word curriculum. Per the above definition my Karate school has a set curriculum while Modern Arnis 80 is a system, in and of itself. There are elements I teach which were not me by GM Remy Presas and the organization of progression is definitely mine. It is a branch of the original Modern Arnis as taught by Remy Presas and was verbally sanctioned by him (Dang! I wish I'd gotten it in writing.)

As to my being the Grand Master, Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! As to being the Headmaster, Head Instructor, Founder, Head Goon, Top Cat and so forth, yes, 'tis true. Were a senior practitioner to recognize me as such, I would consider it. (Example: if Ernesto Presas came to me and said, "Dan. You are Grand Master of your own system." that would be such a recognition.) This year's World Head Of Family Sokeship Council recognizing me as a Founder Of The Year 2002 for establishing Modern Arnis 80 I take as a founder recognition. The title Grand Master makes me uneasy as the implication alone of putting myself up there in skill with Remy Presas is, at the time of this writing, ridiculous. Ain't none of us were the man. With time and practice, perhaps, but not as of 30 October 2002 we ain't. It reminds me of the Larson Far Side cartoon, "Bummer of a birthmark, Ed."

As to 10th Degree, again, Nooooooooooo! Remy Presas promoted me to 6th Degree. I will not promote myself to 10th Degree. At this point in time, Modern Arnis 80 ends at 6th Degree. If I receive a promotion by an organized body of martial artists or separately by a senior martial artist, I would accept that promotion.

So let me reiterate and clarify:
1. Modern Arnis 80 is a sytem. My mis-definition fo the word curriculum had created a confusion.
2. I am the founder of that system.
3. I am not a Grand Master as no senior practitioner/authority has recognized me as such.
4. I am not a 10th Degree as I have not been promoted to it by a a senior practioner/authority.

If you or anyone wishes to think of me as a GM, well, thank you for the complement. I'm working on being worthy of that some day.

One thing I do want to state is this: coming forth publicly with Modern Arnis 80 takes me out of the issue of succession of Remy Presas Modern Arnis and the question of who is following "Remy's wishes." It is a bold step to say one is doing either one. As I did not live, travel, converse with on a 24 hour basis and was not a close confidant of Remy Presas, for me to say I am following his wishes or dreams for Modern Arnis would be incorrect. To take "the art within your art" forward in my own vision is correct. If you look over his own history, that's what he did.

Stephen,
Very good analogy you brought up. I am very familiar with the branches of Kajukenbo as a couple of my best friends grew up in different branches of the system. And yes, Modern Arnis 80 could be compared to what Al Dacascos did when he founded Wun Hop Kuen Do. Al studied under Adriano Emperado and Sid Asunsion (spelling probably incorrect on Sid's last name). His roots are definitely Kajukenbo and Wun Hop Kuen Do is a recognized branch of Kajukenbo.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Founder, Modern Arnis 80

 

[arnisador]

"Bummer of a birthmark, Ed."

Wasn't it Hal, not Ed?

 

[bloodwood]

Dan, Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail. My questions have been answered. There is one other thing that I'm curious about though, and that is your association with the WMAA. You are listed on their web site as west coast technical director but do not follow their curriculum or way of teaching. They are a quality organization and I can see why you would want to be associated with them but isn't the difference in curriculums conflicting? Maybe this is one of the points that made me misunderstand your MA-80. Don't worry, no more hard questions I just like to know where the people in the upper ranks of my art stand.
You seem to be on verge of breaking out on your own, and if that is the case I wish you well in your journey.

Bloodwood

 

[arnisador]

I've split this thread.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by bloodwood

Dan, Thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail. My questions have been answered. There is one other thing that I'm curious about though, and that is your association with the WMAA. You are listed on their web site as west coast technical director but do not follow their curriculum or way of teaching. They are a quality organization and I can see why you would want to be associated with them but isn't the difference in curriculums conflicting? Maybe this is one of the points that made me misunderstand your MA-80. Don't worry, no more hard questions I just like to know where the people in the upper ranks of my art stand.
You seem to be on verge of breaking out on your own, and if that is the case I wish you well in your journey.

Bloodwood

Blood,
No problemo on the hard questions. Like 'em and every once in a while the clarification leads to my clarification as well (as in the word curriculum). I am personally affiliated with WMAA. This came about from my spending a week with Tim prior to the Summer Camp. He and I see eye to eye on many things. I like his energy in promoting the art and his willingness to communicate his viewpoint. Our ways of teaching the art differ as we have different backgrounds and I don't follow his curriculum and he doesn't follow mine. It's cool, though. The Technical Director aspect has more to do with an overview of the art rather than the day by day/belt by belt teaching. I support his efforts unreservedly.

Thanks for the questions - sometimes the inquirys come as attacks and yours didn't. Any questions, anytime.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
Founder, Modern Arnis 80

PS - have we met? this is the one thing I hate about the pen name business in this forum. The rest I like.

 

[bloodwood]

Dan,
We have not met.

Martial Talk is a great forum and one of the things I LIKE is the cloak of anonimity that allows me to make statements and ask questions without people being prejudiced towards me because of an affiliation with a particular group, organization or person. I usually try to keep my posts positive although sometimes I get carried away with or too caught up in a subject to make the right choice of words. My goal is to continue to be a teacher and a student of Modern Arnis, and to help carry it into the future.

Bloodwood

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by bloodwood

Dan,
My goal is to continue to be a teacher and a student of Modern Arnis, and to help carry it into the future.

Bloodwood

Excellent! That's the goal.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I've been very busy lately with several side projects, which kept me from writing about Dan Anderson and his role in the WMAA sooner. Dan is the West Coast Technical Advisor, not to be confused with Technical Director. I feel that this is where the misunderstanding lies. His role is to offer advice to those training in our group. Dan has many years in the art and can offer much to ALL, but he is not familiar enough to teach and grade in the WMAA program. This is the reason he is an advisor and not a director or grading officer.

Even though he is known for disarming, Dan is well versed in the system. More importantly, he understands the concepts and principles of the system. He would be an excellent addition to any organization.

As far as the MA-80 goes, the WMAA encourages our member’s rights to self-expression. Remy ALWAYS encouraged me to do so. What our members do in their schools is their own business, as long as it's LEGAL and doesn't reflect negatively on the WMAA.

What role does MA - 80 play in the WMAA? It doesn't. Our members can use whatever training program they want. Those who are interested in attaining rank certification with the WMAA must follow our curriculum! This is not to say that all of our members tested in our program. We do acknowledge rank that was awarded by GM Presas, but for further promotions members are required to follow our standards.

In the near future we will be listing all of the positions in our org with job descriptions. Hopefully this will help prevent any future misunderstandings. I will explain one position for now.

Grading officers.
These are the ONLY people in our organization that can promote our members. There are four levels.

1. Can test & promote up to Antas Anim (purple).
2. Can test & promote up to Likah Tatlo (3rd brown).
3. Can test & promote up to Lakan / Dayang Isa (1st black).
4. Can test & promote above black, limited to one belt below their own.

The list of our grading officers is on our web site. I'm looking forward to adding more names to the list in the future.

That's all for now,
Tim Hartman
WMAA President & Technical Director
www.wmarnis.com
:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by Renegade

Dan has many years in the art and can offer much to ALL, but he is not familiar enough to teach and grade in the WMAA program. This is the reason he is an advisor and not a director or grading officer.

Tim Hartman
WMAA President & Technical Director
www.wmarnis.com
:asian:

I was asked, however, to be a co-signer on Jeffery Leader's 3rd Degree Black Belt certificate.

Dan

 

[arnisador]

Which pleased him greatly, incidentally.

For the promotions of the highest-ranked Modern Arnis practitioners it'll probably be necessary to get people who aren't even Modern Arnis practitioners to sign off on their certificates--as was done in Kenpo, for example. I've wondered: What will happen to those Modern Arnis players who don't join an organization due to all the politics that have been involved? Will anyone be willing to promote them just for the sake of the art--knowing it would have been the Professor's will?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by arnisador

Which pleased him greatly, incidentally.

For the promotions of the highest-ranked Modern Arnis practitioners it'll probably be necessary to get people who aren't even Modern Arnis practitioners to sign off on their certificates--as was done in Kenpo, for example. I've wondered: What will happen to those Modern Arnis players who don't join an organization due to all the politics that have been involved? Will anyone be willing to promote them just for the sake of the art--knowing it would have been the Professor's will?

Arnisador,

Good points here. I personally just want to train and to learn. I know this sounds all altruistic and all, but the titles and leadership are for a special type of person. I am too nice and friendly. I would make too many mistakes.

Yet, you mentioned those that just stayed on the fringe, would anyone recognize them? As long as people are open and honest and allow people from other organizations or independents to train with their own group then these 'others' will be recognized in a fashion. If they have talent and something to offer, people will realize it. No matter if it is their own interpretation of Modern Arnis or some other Martial Art. Those that are independent, most likely are teaching part time or not for profit or are in it to cover their bills and not to make a 'big' business out of it. Therefore the rank issue is not as big an issue. (* There is nothing wrong with someone making a living from Martial Arts. I support that completely. *) The students of these clubs might have to leave and join an organization for rank or recognition if their desires are for a life time of service to Modern Arnis. It will become the responsibility of these independents to produce quality students. A student that is going to be able to go and join an organization, and to learn the terms or names of the moves they already know.

Just my thoughts.


:asian: