Cultural Differences

[CoryKS]

Just found an interesting article related to the topic. For those of you who are familiar with OSC's Ender's Game series, it uses Card's "Hierarchy of Alienness" as a jumping-off point for discussing cultural differences.

Common Ground, or the Lack Thereof

 

[Ramirez]

Of course when one takes the best aspects of the British and the Americans, you end up with a .....Canadian!

Seriously as a Canadian (born in Trinidad and Tobago) ...which I would guess lies somewhere in between the two cultures....the British seemed more reserved, more willing to defer to authority, the Americans are more bombastic and more individualist.

 

[Sukerkin]

And yet we have one of the most 'revolt' filled histories of any First World nation . Part of that is of course the fact that we welded ourselves together from four different countries, each of which has elements that will not tolerate elements from the others . That worked well enough when we weren't so concerned about not treading on other peoples 'rights' but no so good when we reached post-Imperial 'enlightenment'.

One thing I think that our American cousins need to bear in mind is that your country was founded by the religious malcontents that we didn't want 'here' but couldn't quite bring ourselves to execute. So it's not a surprise that some of your fundamental attitutudes are very recognisable as 18th century Puritan English.

Then, as with Australia later, we shipped out a fair load of criminals and misfits to get rid of them.

Then you cosied up to the French (nosey late-comer Bagginsies they were in the New World) when you decided that you didn't want to pay taxes but couldn't win a revolt without their support (why don't you chaps remember that more publicly by the way?).

Even the Russians got a bit of a look in for a short while (never really understood why; I shall have to read up on that unless someone can tell me here?).

Since then, America's swung between isolationism and neo-imperialism and never really seems to settle on either and has been the target of an ever increasing influx of other 'peoples' which has really messed up your social stability and got the whole pot on the 'rolling boil'.

Even with the remote perspective of an outsider, I really can't predict what will happen to American culture over the next couple of decades - I just hope, as I've said before, that we stop importing your bad points and try to emulate some of your good.

Maybe it'll be that you'll become more than the sum of your parts and transcend the potential schisms that could erupt. After all, English history up to 1066 was one of repeated invasions and assimilations. The comparative stability that came after that was down to the mixing of cultures producing a strong mongrel, protected by the Channel, which grew into a world spanning power.

We are much more alike than I think either 'side' would like to admit. The real differences I see are the same that you see in generations of a single family. We sit and tut at your bad teenage behaviour around the world, trying to advise that "we wouldn't do that if we were you" and you toss your heads at our patriachial hypocrisy for looking down our noses at you doing what we did :lol:.

 

[Gordon Nore]

You were doing fine right up until your last line, Elder.

Other than that fantasy (which is based on the whinings of a few generations of panned Frenchmen) there's not a lot to disagree with in what you say.

Sukerkin,

Elder does have a point. Or do you want me to tell the Americans about this?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I like UK folks.

Having been there twice and NOT added to the stereotype( "Ah carn't beLIEVE 'e's so quiet! I never 'eard of it, a shy American!" ) I too had my eyes opened as to how much of England does NOT conform to the snobby, stale stereotype we sometimes get. ( Riding the trains the night a local "football" team had won against another local team....eye opening indeed:eye-popping:)

Thing is, you're still cool to us in many ways. Witness "Brit as hero/villain in Yank movies":

Even though it's often grumbled about that English actors are often cast as villains in American movies, it isn't because we think less of you, but rather because the demeanor, acent and mannerisms communicate intelligent, calculated, and therefore frequently successful, evil plans .

Portrayed as the good guys, you're the James Bond type. never ruffled in the face of danger,not so much the macho-oozing, action hero cool but the unruffled, social-engineer-with-stunt-training cool, stiff upper lip and all that.

Kind of fits once thought through.

Americans in general, have traditionally been an all-or-nothing type of society for better or worse. We like the big win, the touchdown, the first-round knockout. There seems to be something in us that needs to know, and for everyone else to know, that not only did we "win", whatever it constitutes in the particular case, but that we won by an unquestionable margin. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it is not, because not all fights CAN be won that way, yet many crucial ones still must be fought slow and steady. Some of this it's taken our current situation to finally come to realize.

You have the calm , unrushed confidence of experience, and we the energy and percieved invincibility of youth, and it reflects in our heroes.

You got "...Aren't you in the wrong room, Mr. Bond?.....Not from where I'm standing".

We got "Braddock!...Don't step on any toes!........I don't step on toes, Mr. Chairman.....I step on NECKS".

It was the same difference in vibe and "energy" in the general populace in America post 9/11 , and in England when the Blitz was on. Somewhat similar circumstances( though the blitz was longer), Similar but distinct reactions.

Here, there was the natural shock, then burst of outrage, but there was all of the singing and pulling together and for just those few days/weeks there were cross sections of US culture who were giving blood and volunteering on their own time to clean up Ground Zero and just pulling together in ways that were stone cold unthinkable to do prior to the event.

I've seen footage of the Blitz and heard accounts of how that was handled--Brits just kept right on, going to work, living their lives, didn't cave for one minute to the bombers, stiff upper lip and all that.

I mean we like to make noise every now and then about how we're a pretty tough breed when times call for it but even WE can't claim THAT level of resilience, it was like "right--is that all you got?"

Then we both commenced to asskicking but did it each in our accustomed ways--us, to fight like a young man, all recklessness, athleticism, size, strength and savagery, and you, as an older, wiser one might--he's been young, and has been through that, and knows how to fight *around* a young man, slipping, voiding, countering and saving the energy for when a shot to where it HURTS opens up.


This last few years, I think, has forced us into a period of( i hope) forced maturation so maybe we'll start seeing more options as we stop being young--Our "young" country is getting to that late 20's-early 30's stage where the invincibility begins to wear off, and while his muscle isn't gone, he's getting sore for longer periods after each fight.

(Of course that'd have to put your country in his 70's but hell--so's Chuck Norris and nobody ****s with HIM).

 

[Sukerkin]

Gordon, if that is a chip buttie, my friend, you had better think long and hard about what you are trying to imply ... :lol:. One of the foods of the (martial) gods is that.

 

[Ramirez]

Sukerkin,

Elder does have a point. Or do you want me to tell the Americans about this?

Well the blood pudding and the haggis are awesome. It just is not Christmas without the plum pudding, and what is roast beef without the Yorkshire pudding?

As for the jellied eels...gack!

Does Scotch count as part of the cuisine? For that alone I can forgive the deep fried Mars bars.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Gordon, if that is a chip buttie, my friend, you had better think long and hard about what you are trying to imply ... :lol:. One of the foods of the (martial) gods is that.

It most certainly is a chip buttie. British-style pubs were enormously popular in Toronto in the eighties -- there are still a few about. I worked as a waiter and later barman and manager at a joint called The Black Sheep. Pub grub included...

Scotch Egg
Bangers, Beans and Chips
Bangers and Mash

...and various other delights that I've forgotten.

However, in fairness, I must acknowledge Quebec's contribution to fine dining... Poutine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

 

[Ramirez]

However, in fairness, I must acknowledge Quebec's contribution to fine dining... Poutine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

I have to say though, if you want great cuisine, Quebec is the place in Canada, maybe in North America. I was in Quebec City last summer, the food is just awesome there.

Try restaurant Initiale if you are ever there.

http://www.restaurantinitiale.com/

 

[Sukerkin]

Move along, move along. Nothing to see here - go to post #55 to see what I said in full.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

It most certainly is a chip buttie. British-style pubs were enormously popular in Toronto in the eighties -- there are still a few about. I worked as a waiter and later barman and manager at a joint called The Black Sheep. Pub grub included...

Scotch Egg
Bangers, Beans and Chips
Bangers and Mash

...and various other delights that I've forgotten.

However, in fairness, I must acknowledge Quebec's contribution to fine dining... Poutine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

Well that's one thing at least that Americans, Brits and Canadians CAN all agree on--We love our fries!

 

[Ramirez]

-We love our fries!

The correct term is "chips", well I guess really "frites" and you can thank those Belgians...who also make some fine beers as many of my hangovers can attest to.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Then what are chips? "Crisps" or somesuch?

 

[Ramirez]

Then what are chips? "Crisps" or somesuch?

Daniel-San....chips are what go with the fish. Crisps come in a mylar bag.

 

[Sukerkin]

I think, just as we've been discussing in the "Beers" thread, some foods do not travel well either and are best eaten in their homelands .

Deep fried Mars bars are simply a sin in anybody's book but a Scotsmans or maybe a Geordies :yeuk:.

Andy, "chips" are potato sliced into chunky slivers and deep fried {preferably slowly so they absorb loads of lovely fat ... what do you mean it's bad for you }

 

[Andy Moynihan]

That's what I was asking--US fries = UK Chips, US chips= UK crisps, correct?

 

[Sukerkin]

Close but American fries are nothing like 'proper' chips. One is stringy, crisp and seemingly 99% salt, leaving you gasping for a cup of tea whilst the other is moist, steaming, coddled with fat (preferably animal not that namby vegetable oil crap) utterly scruptious and giving you a thirst for a beer .

 

[Ramirez]

Close but American fries are nothing like 'proper' chips.

And chips are nothing like frites. I love being a wine and food snob. Too much foodnetwork for me.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Close but American fries are nothing like 'proper' chips. One is stringy, crisp and seemingly 99% salt, leaving you gasping for a cup of tea whilst the other is moist, steaming, coddled with fat (preferably animal not that namby vegetable oil crap) utterly scruptious and giving you a thirst for a beer .

Aaah.
OK so what you refer to as chips would not correspond to our crappy fast food fries but closer to what we over here might call "steak fries". Yum.

 

[Ramirez]

Well I think this thread has drifted enough, the difference between the US and the UK is surely the food and the beer, and the language, and the money, and the politics.....

One last thought, as John Cleese said, there is no American English, there is only English English!