Crossing Guard, Tracys Orange Belt

Flying Crane

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OK, this has nothing to do with a crossing guard who helps kids get across the street while on their way to school...

I would like to get some thoughts and opinions from Tracy people on this tech. In your opinion, what is the "meat" of the tech?

Personally, I always found the hand strikes to be somewhat awkward and not very useful. Instead, I tend to focus on the sweep. I hook my foot behind the opponent's ankle, and sweep it forward while grabbing his lead shoulder and pulling him back and downward. When done correctly, he lands pretty hard on his back and the back of his head. In the Chinese arts, this sweep is know as Bak Hok Tom Goi, or White Crane Tests the Water. I always found that name to be appropriately descriptive.
 

KenpoDave

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OK, this has nothing to do with a crossing guard who helps kids get across the street while on their way to school...

I would like to get some thoughts and opinions from Tracy people on this tech. In your opinion, what is the "meat" of the tech?

Personally, I always found the hand strikes to be somewhat awkward and not very useful. Instead, I tend to focus on the sweep. I hook my foot behind the opponent's ankle, and sweep it forward while grabbing his lead shoulder and pulling him back and downward. When done correctly, he lands pretty hard on his back and the back of his head. In the Chinese arts, this sweep is know as Bak Hok Tom Goi, or White Crane Tests the Water. I always found that name to be appropriately descriptive.

The key is the scissoring motion of the hand strike and simultaneous sweep. It is part of a family of techniques known as Hidden Man, and is section 10 of the Tam Tui set.
 
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Gary Crawford

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F.C. Thank you for bringing this tech up, I hadn't thought of it for a while. I agree it is an effective tech if it's not telegraphed(learned that the hard way).
 

Jim Hanna

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I personally love those strikes. The trick, for me, was to start the back knuckle from a circular point of origin, rather than a linear stop and go. It increases power and reduces telegraphing. That back knuckle strike to the top third of the sternum can cause very serious trauma. The left forearm smash is pretty good too. I don't worry about the take down so much. If its there, then great. If its not, who cares. He gonna fall down anyway.

Jim
 
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Flying Crane

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I personally love those strikes. The trick, for me, was to start the back knuckle from a circular point of origin, rather than a linear stop and go. It increases power and reduces telegraphing. That back knuckle strike to the top third of the sternum can cause very serious trauma. The left forearm smash is pretty good too. I don't worry about the take down so much. If its there, then great. If its not, who cares. He gonna fall down anyway.

Jim


Of course if the backfist lands hard and the tripping sweep is placed well, he will go down before the elbow smash can be applied.

I guess I just sort of focused more on the sweep itself. Now that I think about it more, maybe the initial backfist does make sense, but I still like the sweep aspect the best.
 
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Flying Crane

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Dave or Michael,

Can you post your versions of Crossing Guard?

Thanks


Let's see if I can write it up here...

Offensive movement, you are in a right foot foreward stance, opponent is facing you with his left foot foreward.

Cross-step into the opponent, left foot making the cross step in front of the right. Step out with the right foot and place it tight behind the opponent's lead ankle. As you place the foot, throw a horizontal right backfist into the top of his sternum. This should cause him to topple backwards somewhat, and the trip with the right foot helps complete the throw. The backfist with the trip simultaneous together acts as kind of a sissoring technique.

Grab the front of his shirt with the right hand and pull him in as you pivot and throw a left elbow smash into his face. This is the main part I don't like so much. I think if the first part works, you will never get to this part. If the first part doesn't work, I find this grab and elbow smash to be awkward in this position.

I sort of started just using the trip as a blatant sweep. Sweep his ankle forward, bringing your foot up to waist height as you sweep, your leg is straight and you just scoop his foot off the ground after you hook his ankle with your instep. Don't try to kick his foot out of the way, rather scoop and lift straight up, the movement is like you are kicking a football off a tee. Perhaps the backfist to the sternum is worthwhile, but then grab his lead shoulder with both hands and jerk him hard, back and down along your right side as you make the sweep. His foot goes high forward, his torso goes low backward, he hits the ground very hard. Bak Hok Tom Goi, White Crane Tests the Water. If you hit hard enough with the backfist, perhaps you don't need the grab. That might be enough to get him toppling backwards to make the grab unnecessary. Follow thru with the sweep. It's an awsome technique.

I like this basic movement against a push from the front, either two or one handed, or even against a punch. As the attack enters (say it's a two handed push), shift to the outside, (say about 1:00), pivot and clear his attack with a double circling block to your left. From here you are in a perfect position to grab the back of his shoulder with both hands, jerk him down past your right side as you do the same sweep with your right foot against his left ankle.
 
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Flying Crane

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Now that my brain is working here, I've got another thought...

That sweep is very useful any time you can get behind your opponent. Think about techs like Darkness (Blue #15), Brushing Wind (Green #20) and Crossing Hammers (Green #8). You flank to the outside of your opponent and position yourself behind him. At this point the sweep becomes very easy to do. Brushing Wind starts out very similar to Darkness. Once the flanking move is done, it incorporates a sweep. But I find BW's sweep to be awkward, and I think Bak Hok Tom Goi would work better here. The shoulder grab is easy to get, his foot is right where you want it for the sweep.

I see this sweep as similar enough to the Crossing Guard to be considered a variation on the same tech. Use it at will, it can fit into many places.

Edit: By the way, this sweep is found in Tiger and Crane set. Since most Tracy people have probably learned a version of this set, it should be a familiar technique.

Another edit: this sweep is also found in Knee Sweep, Green belt #11. Sweep the foot up and then kick the supporting knee underneath. Not done exactly the same, but very similar.
 

HKphooey

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Thanks again for posting your version...

I looked into my notes. I have a few variations of the technique. Once of which does not use a "true sweep". I step my right foot behind the attacker's leg. As I execute the backfist strike, I close my knee into the back of the attacker's knee (collapsing it and placing him off balance but not taking him down). The right hand then goes to a check/push of the left shoulder followed by the left elbow to the face or sternum.

I also have variations where the right backfist is to the face or the sternum. I guess this depends on where the attackers hands are.

Question to all... what do you teach/were you taught to dow ith your left hand/arm at the start of the technique? I use chest height check, close to my body. This sets me up for the elbow, but also works nicely if I go over his left arm/hand, I can grab that wrist and pull while striking.
 
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Flying Crane

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Question to all... what do you teach/were you taught to dow ith your left hand/arm at the start of the technique? I use chest height check, close to my body. This sets me up for the elbow, but also works nicely if I go over his left arm/hand, I can grab that wrist and pull while striking.

I tend to keep it in a guard position, around chest level. In my opinion, if you want to do a second hand shot, a left reverse punch would work well here. I just find the left elbow awkward.

I agree with your earlier comments as well. Make the backfist to whereever a good target is open. Face, sternum, whatever. How about a right knifehand to the throat?

I can also see buckling his knee as a viable option. I think maybe we are getting into the realm of personal preference, as well as adjusting to the scenario.
 

HKphooey

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I tend to keep it in a guard position, around chest level. In my opinion, if you want to do a second hand shot, a left reverse punch would work well here. I just find the left elbow awkward.

I agree with your earlier comments as well. Make the backfist to whereever a good target is open. Face, sternum, whatever. How about a right knifehand to the throat?

I can also see buckling his knee as a viable option. I think maybe we are getting into the realm of personal preference, as well as adjusting to the scenario.

Agreed! Most of this stuff I can no longer remember how I learned it. With my height, much of my older material is modified for my height/legs.
 
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Flying Crane

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With my height, much of my older material is modified for my height/legs.

Yeah, I think if I was fighting you, I'd be throwing these head-high kicks right up into your knees!
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KenpoDave

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I tend to keep it in a guard position, around chest level. In my opinion, if you want to do a second hand shot, a left reverse punch would work well here. I just find the left elbow awkward.

I agree with your earlier comments as well. Make the backfist to whereever a good target is open. Face, sternum, whatever. How about a right knifehand to the throat?

I can also see buckling his knee as a viable option. I think maybe we are getting into the realm of personal preference, as well as adjusting to the scenario.

My version is the same as the write-up, except...my backfist goes to the solar plexus and my sweep is what I call a "replacement sweep." I slam my foot down hard just to the inside of my opponent's foot, basically kneeing him in the back of the knee. It causes his leg to buckle, but, he does not fall, nor can he recover because my leg has "replaced" his.

When I pull him around for the elbow sandwich, damage can be done to the leg that I just kicked because he cannot adjust with the twist, because my leg is there.

Oh, I snap the backfist. If the opponent's arms are up (like he is choking someone else) I find that my arm gets trapped when he says, "Ugghhh" and his arms drop.
 

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Anyone ever practice Crossing Guard from a sitting position? i.e. on a barstool, in adjacent seats on an airplane or bus, or say ... Movie theatre seats?

Crossing Guard is a very awkward technique to get started on. However, once learned and you are able to involve the waste, it becomes a fair tolerable technique. Pretty simple, yet extremely effective for a flank attack while you are in an "inferior" position.
 
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Flying Crane

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Anyone ever practice Crossing Guard from a sitting position? i.e. on a barstool, in adjacent seats on an airplane or bus, or say ... Movie theatre seats?

Crossing Guard is a very awkward technique to get started on. However, once learned and you are able to involve the waste, it becomes a fair tolerable technique. Pretty simple, yet extremely effective for a flank attack while you are in an "inferior" position.


I think in the old 1980 orange belt tech video, Al Tracy makes comment about the barstool situation.
 

Sigung86

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I think in the old 1980 orange belt tech video, Al Tracy makes comment about the barstool situation.

In fact, he does. I'm curious as to whether or not anyone outside of the little fat kid, that would be me, has ever investigated that aspect of Crossing Guard.:)
 

KenpoDave

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In fact, he does. I'm curious as to whether or not anyone outside of the little fat kid, that would be me, has ever investigated that aspect of Crossing Guard.:)

Yep. It's cool, because if you are both on stools, the pull actually pulls your stool around too, which makes the elbow and the face enjoy a head on collision! (pun intended)
 
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