Create your new solo/partner drill

Kung Fu Wang

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Some punching tools don't exist in some MA system. If you can just create a short drill, those tools will be in your MA system for the future generation.

Here is an example.

1. You throw a right back fist, your opponent uses right arm to block it.
2. You change your back fist into a grab, pull your opponent's blocking arm down, and step in with a left overhand. Your opponent uses left arm to block your punch to your left.
3. You change your over hand into a grab, pull your opponent's left blocking arm to your left, and step in with a right hammer fist on top of his head.
4. Your opponent raises right arm to block it. You step in with a left spiral punch to his chest.

This combo can be trained solo or with partner.

- back fist,
- overhand,
- hammer fist,
- spiral punch,

Many principles are addressed here.

- Punch can come from all different directions.
- A punch can have grab and pull after.
- Your next punch is always attack the new opening that you have just created.
- If your opponent steps back, you step in. This can train your footwork.

What's your opinion on this training method?
 

skribs

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The two issues are:
  1. How do you maintain the drill. (In other words: preserve it for future generations).
  2. How do you keep the art from getting bloated.
At my school, we use a numbering system for our drills. They're not as back-and-forth as this, but we have "White Belt Punch Defense #1-5, Yellow Belt Punch Defense #1-5", and so on. Thing is, there are a lot of these drills. I have over 140 partner drills. That's not including a bunch more solo combinations. It's almost impossible for people to have it all memorized at once. They memorize pieces, and then lose some drills to learn others.

In the example you provide, these students would still know backfist, overhand, hammerfist, and spiral punch. They just wouldn't remember the order of the drill. That's going to make it difficult to pass on. It would need to be written, recorded, or drawn, which is a skill that not everyone has, nor time they are willing to spend.

When you do this for a drill, you have to maintain the base application of the drill. You could modify the drill for other techniques or blocks, but you want to maintain the core. This is one of the reasons why forms are strictly memorized, is because they contain the techniques you're expected to know. Nowadays, it's easier to do things with a checklist of what techniques you're supposed to know. But back then, that wasn't always an option. The form was to keep you from forgetting to train a technique.

What happens when you come up with a new drill? Does it get added to the already bloated curriculum? Do you not add any drills because you already have a lot? Do you remove drills that you previously had?

This is why I don't like having anything in the system be rote. I like recording the pieces separate, and then putting them together. If you know:
  • Lead and Strong hand punching
  • Straight, Hook, Uppercut, Backfist, and Hammerfist punches
  • Repeating, Alternating, and Flowing combinations (multiple punches from same side, from alternate sides, or a strike that is the chamber for the following strike)
I've taught 3 concepts (punching hand, punching technique, combination), with a total of 10 techniques or applications.

Let's go back to the drill in the OP.

1. You throw a right back fist, your opponent uses right arm to block it.
2. You change your back fist into a grab, pull your opponent's blocking arm down, and step in with a left overhand. Your opponent uses left arm to block your punch to your left.
3. You change your over hand into a grab, pull your opponent's left blocking arm to your left, and step in with a right hammer fist on top of his head.
4. Your opponent raises right arm to block it. You step in with a left spiral punch to his chest.

Step 2 and 3 are the same concept: your opponent blocks a strike, and you grab them and then counter with the other hand. Step 4 appears to be similar, but without the step. Instead of worrying about preserving this specific drill, you could boil it down to one concept: When your opponent blocks, grab and strike with the other hand. This now covers an infinite series of drills in which your opponent blocks. You would also need to include the techniques of backfist, overhand, hammerfist, and spiral punch. But that checklist becomes much shorter.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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How do you maintain the drill.
You can insert this drill in the middle of an existing form in your system.

For example, I can add a MT flying knee into one of my long fist forms. My long fist form won't lost anything but 1 extra tool has been added in.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Step 2 and 3 are the same concept: your opponent blocks a strike, and you grab them and then counter with the other hand.
2 and 3 are a little bit different.

2 - You throw a back fist. Your opponent blocks up. You change your punch into a grab and downward pull. This is "force against force" principle.

3. You throw a overhand. Your opponent blocks to your left. Before his arm contacts yours, you change your punch into a grab and pull to your left. This is "lead your opponent into the emptiness - let your opponent to block into the thin air" principle.

Instead of worrying about preserving this specific drill, you could boil it down to one concept: When your opponent blocks, grab and strike with the other hand.
The main purpose of this approach is not to preserve the principle, but to add those striking tool that don't exist in someone's MA system.

In another "WC boxing" thread, people talk about whether WC has back fist, overhand, hammer fist, spiral punch or not.

Since my long fist system also doesn't have flying knee, this concern can be shared by many MA systems.
 
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Flying Crane

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Anyone can create a drill to develop a skill. If you teach it to some students and they find it useful and effective, then likely it will continue to get passed along.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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Anyone can create a drill to develop a skill. If you teach it to some students and they find it useful and effective, then likely it will continue to get passed along.
As Skribs's concern - How do you maintain the drill.

What do you think about the idea to add your drill into your already existed traditional form?

For example, the WC system only has 3 forms. You can

- expand one of those forms, or
- create the 4th form.

Which approach do you prefer?

What happens when you come up with a new drill? Does it get added to the already bloated curriculum? Do you not add any drills because you already have a lot? Do you remove drills that you previously had?
I like to record my drills into GIF file. I find GIF file is an excellent way to preserve MA information.

If I only record tools, I can record all 9 punching tools into in drill (1 GIF).

In the following drill, only hook has been recorded twice for smooth connection. All the other 8 tools only be recorded once.

1. Right jab
2. Left cross
3. Right back fist.
4. Left overhand.
5. Right hook.
6. Left uppercut.
7. Right hammer fist.
8. Left hook.
9. Left side punch.
10. Right spiral punch.
 
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skribs

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The main purpose of this approach is not to preserve the principle, but to add those striking tool that don't exist in someone's MA system.

Then you're overcomplicating it. Add in a technique by adding in a technique. Add in a drill by adding in a drill. Simplicity is a virtue.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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Then you're overcomplicating it. Add in a technique by adding in a technique. Add in a drill by adding in a drill. Simplicity is a virtue.
Agree! This is why I'm not sure to record "grab, pull" is a good idea if I just want to add a simple tool such as "back fist".

Since 99% of the time, your opponent will block your back fist. When you record a tool such as back fist, should you also record what your opponent may block it, and how you may respond to his respond such as grab and pull?
 
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Flying Crane

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As Skribs's concern - How do you maintain the drill.

What do you think about the idea to add your drill into your already existed traditional form?

For example, the WC system only has 3 forms. You can

- expand one of those forms, or
- create the 4th form.

Which approach do you prefer?


I like to record my drills into GIF file. I find GIF file is an excellent way to preserve MA information.

If I only record tools, I can record all 9 punching tools into in drill (1 GIF).

In the following drill, only hook has been recorded twice for smooth connection. All the other 8 tools only be recorded once.

1. Right jab
2. Left cross
3. Right back fist.
4. Left overhand.
5. Right hook.
6. Left uppercut.
7. Right hammer fist.
8. Left hook.
9. Left side punch.
10. Right spiral punch.
I would just keep it as a drill. If I felt it ought to be in a form then maybe I would create the form to feature it. But I wouldnt add it to a form that is already part of the formal curriculum, unless it was very very minor. I dont feel like forms are sacred and cannot be changed, or can only be changed by the grandmaster/head guy of the system, who doesnt exist in our method. But I do feel they shouldnt be changed on a whim, or by someone who isnt really solid in their training.
 

skribs

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Agree! This is why I'm not sure to record "grab, pull" is a good idea if I just want to add a simple tool such as "back fist".

Since 99% of the time, your opponent will block your back fist. When you record a tool such as back fist, should you also record what your opponent may block it, and how you may respond to his respond such as grab and pull?

There are so many responses to any technique, and so many follow-ups to each of those responses, you quickly hit the point where it's impossible to manage. I can...
  1. Use one of several blocks to intercept it. It could be a sideways palm push, a palm guard, a rising block, hinge block, outward block, inward block. Not to mention I can do the block as a parry (efficient block), a hard block, or a block with intent to grab.
  2. I may step forward to close the distance, backward to create distance, or side-to-side to create an opening.
  3. I may kick to push you away before the backfist lands.
  4. I may use head movement to slip the backfist. I may also counter-attack while I am doing so.
  5. I may absorb the backfist (such as with my guard) and close the distance so I can grab you.
Are you going to look into every possible response for the backfist? At some point, it becomes impossible to keep track of unless you only have a few techniques.
 

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