Cost of a black belt grading

[satans.barber]

:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:

<ping instructors> how much do you guys charge for a black belt grading?

We were supposed to be grading for black belt in July, but I don't know if it's going ahead now because Mr. Cawood's suddenly doubled the price, and half of the people grading (a married couple, comprising two out of four of us total) basically don't think they can raise the money.

It was £50 (~$75) before, and he's put it up to £75 (a 50% increase, thanks Phil, that's well in line with the 2.5% inflation...), but he's also decided that we have to pay for his petrol money to get him up here (he's supposed to run the club, and we haven't seen him in about 15 months, it's not like he spends money getting here every month...) so he's rounded it up to £100 (~$150) each.

I don't really care to be honest, this has been dragging on so long now (it's been posponed about 7 times so far) that it's par for the course.

Ian.

 

[KenpoDragon]

I don't know if this will help you but mine was $50 for each Brown, and $150 for the Black. It was dispensed through ALL the members of the board. Some of the board members had to take the day off of work, or drive long distances to get to the studio. It was kind of like a thanks for coming by type of thing. I didn't mind because my old instructor never charged for any test up until your Brown Belt test. Hope that helps a little.:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

Kenpo has always undercharged ... or more accuratly, been below the going market ... check your local Taekwondo dojang for really interesting rates - they probably won't tell you for fear of running you off. I have heard, have personal knowledge of other schools charging $40 for the test, $15 for the belt, $10 for the certificate, and $10 for certification with the Association. This is a whopping $75 for a colored belt below brown. Sure it was a TakeOne'sDough school, but it still seemed high. The Black Belt was running about $500. The mom is in my class and could not get over how cheap tests were. I hope she thought the knowledge and rank meant more!

I charge $75 for Brown and $150 for Black.

-Michael

 

[Blindside]

We don't charge for tests. Any tests.

Lamont

 

[webpage20022003]

Originally posted by Blindside
We don't charge for tests. Any tests.

Lamont

i'm sure you charge for belt and certificate. I'm sure this charge already covers testing fees ?????? that is why no charge for tests ??????

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by webpage20022003
i'm sure you charge for belt and certificate. I'm sure this charge already covers testing fees ?????? that is why no charge for tests ??????

Webbie,

Sometimes you guys crack me up with the assumptions you make. There are some out there who aren't mercenary enough to charge for testing ...

Lamont’s school for one, and me for instance. My students have to purchase their own belts (not from me), their own uniforms (not from me) and I do not charge for belt tests, ever. I also provide their certificate, no charge. Granted it is not the rice paper, hand painted ostentatious variety with wax seals, but one can do a pretty fair job of creating a damnably fine certificate if one has a good pc, a good software package like Photoshop Elements, a good color printer, a little time, an artistic leaning, and a ream of vellum ... Or access to the same.

The tradition of paying for a belt test have never made sense to me. When you are in college you don't pay extra amounts of money for a test to pass a course for graduation. That would be ludicrous, as the whole point of taking classes is to be able to pass the tests that are, in fact part of the "right of passage" to receive your diploma from the school. But ... People and their traditions go on ad nauseum, mindlessly figuring out things they can do without in their lives to featherline the pockets of Black Belts and instructors with extra, easily earned, income… Much like the folks in Satans.Barber’s post...

A quick aside to Satans.Barber. Sounds like we have a case of outrageous greed fomenting in the Isles. I am sorry to hear that you all are getting screwed around with in such a blatantly extortionate fashion. unfortunately, thems that got the gold makes the rules.

You pay anywhere from reasonable to exhorbitant amounts of money to learn from your instructor over a number of years to become proficient in your desired field (Kenpo in this instance). You have innumerable classes with the instructor(s). Then every so often, you pay an increasingly large amount of money to stand in front of the instructor and his partners and/or association heads to regurgitate what he has shown you, and knows that you either know or do not know.

Bull Twaddle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your giving away hard earned money to folks who want easy money.

And just because the Koreans do it doesn't make it right.
:rofl: But that is another whole area of graft, corruption, and financial lunacy, reserved for another time.

 

[tarabos]

Originally posted by satans.barber
We were supposed to be grading for black belt in July, but I don't know if it's going ahead now because Mr. Cawood's suddenly doubled the price, and half of the people grading (a married couple, comprising two out of four of us total) basically don't think they can raise the money.

something's just not right when the "fee" to test for a belt is so high that a student has trouble affording, let alone justifying it.

it's like the others said...easy money for the instructor.

 

[RCastillo]

Charge 5 dollars for the certificate, since it comes from Master Al, the belt is given.:asian:

 

[Kirk]

My instructor blows his entire day when we test. He charges $20
dollars, regardless of what rank you're testing for .. you get a
NICE certificate, a belt, and a printed curriculum of all you need to
know for the next belt.

If there's anything left over after all that .. I don't begrudge him
one dime ... his whole day is gone, and he makes his living from
teaching.

 

[Michael Billings]

I know what my Association charged for Brown and Black, I assure you I made no money ... at all!!! It went to the Board, for travel, expenses, time, etc. And it certainly did not cover their expenses.

On another note: I do not charge for kid's stripes, they come and go so quickly. But when I spend 2-3 hours testing one of my students I charge de minimus for my time. That block of time could be given to doing privates, school management (books, merchandise, contacting students, etc.)

You are entering an interesting area here. Are you a club, are you a huge school, or are your monthly fees such that test fees are included? Do you pay for it some other way (in contributions of time to the school itself?) If testing is part of a class, rarely, then there is no charge. If I test a group there is a different fee structure (less)

The psychology of fees is important also. Research shows that you seldom value that which you do not pay for. A good arguement is made that they have paid over and over and over, like every month. I have paid for my tests for, hmmmm... 30 something years, in 3 Kenpo Associations, 1 Taekwondo, and in Shotokan. Those not paying should feel lucky. This is a tradition in the martial arts, although historically it may not have been money that was paid. I feel like some compensation for my time is appropriate. My students value my time more highly than I do. I am frequently asked why my test fees are so low, given that most tests end up as extremly long private lessons.

I would never not test someone because they could not pay the fee. I would manage it somehow so their time was donated to a task needing doing that is not a regular part of the school upkeep. Interesting how yall think there should be no fees. I have never experienced that in over 30 years of traing. A free test occassionally, but not as a policy. I wonder what the new IKKA will charge. I know what they used to.

-Michael

 

[Blindside]

i'm sure you charge for belt and certificate. I'm sure this charge already covers testing fees ?????? that is why no charge for tests ??????

Well, that would be a poor assumption. In fact, what you get for that $0.00 charge for your 1st Black test is a genuine rank certificate (oooooh!) signed by all the members of your testing panel, a genuine black belt (oooooh!), and a nifty plaque and katana combo (admittedly the sword is stainless steel, but it will still cut a tomato).

The goal of our studio(s) is to teach kenpo, not to make money. We (the instructors) put our time and effort in because we love the art, and I suspect most of us are glad we don't have to try to make a living doing it.

If you are ever in SW Wyoming, drop in for a visit,

Lamont

PS: In no way am I trying to put down those instructors who do make a living at it, but because we are a non-profit studio we just have different economic requirements.

 

[tonbo]

At our school, there is no charge for testing, no matter what belt you test for.

We have a monthly, all-inclusive, fee for tuition. This pays for lessons, your belts, certificates, and testing fees. All this for prices lower than about 98% of the other schools in the area, who *do* charge for belt tests.

I think that the belief that you don't value what you don't pay for is a plain financial argument. By the time you reach your next belt, you *have* paid for it: sweat, frustration, gas money to get you to class, time spent memorizing your techniques, practice time, etc. The list goes on and on. Why should you now have to flip out cash or your checkbook, to pay for what you have already earned?

When it comes to testing younger people, I have seen total frustration from kids who have worked hard at earning their belt, getting excited because they are now eligible to test, and then getting totally crushed because their parents refuse to pay the $50 to get them tested for their belt.

True, instructors should get compensated for what they do. I fully agree with that. However, I think that they should find other ways to get that compensation, rather than charging excessively for tests.

For a number of years, my wife went to a studio where they charged for *everything*. They had mandatory tests when you got up to the higher ranks, and high belts *had* to test, no matter what, to the tune of $50-$75 per test. There was no way to tell when the test was coming; it was pretty much at the sifu's whim. On top of that, Black tests were not held locally--you were generally required to make a trip out of state to test. This imposed additional fees, on top of the $100 testing fee, including airfare/gas money, hotel/motel rental, and food. For what? I'm not entirely sure. I am pretty confident that the energy in another state is just the same as it is here. Above and beyond all this mess, students were expected to pass off "animal" tests, each emphasizing different aspects (leopard for speed, tiger for strength, etc.), all of which cost around $75 each.

Needless to say, we got tired of all that mess. The joke that went around was that you could expect a large test around December, when the sifu would need to buy Christmas presents for his family. Coincidentally, there often *was* a big, mandatory test around the holiday season. Go figure.

My point is, students do pay for what they get. Personally, I think that they (and we) pay a high enough price, and that a matter of payment shouldn't stop someone from receiving the rank that their instructor has essentially told them they have already earned.

Sorry to ramble, but there ya go......

Peace--

 

[roryneil]

I've never had to pay for a belt test. I believe it's all rolled into the monthly dues. I can't say for brown or black. I'll let you know in a few years
The cost of assembling a Board for testing is moot because all higher level tests are conducted at Spirit Camp and the Seniors are already there. Yea!

 

[Disco]

If you are fortunate enough to belong to a school/organization that has low fee's, consider yourself lucky. The main problem, as I see it, is that the governing organizations who issue rank certifications have you over a barrel. If you want the all holy, Internationally recognized, accepted by aliens from Tricore III then your going to pay for it. That just seems to be the accepted way of doing business today. I won't even go into the Korean thing......... If you choose not to take out a second morgage just for a piece of paper, you will find yourself, in most cases, behind the eight ball if you should want to try to expand your learning. Can't go to another school because they will probably not accept your certificate. Can't start your own school because you don't have an accepted background. Well you could, but you would most likely get hammered by the organized people around you. So you either pay up front or suffer later on down the road. I know there are exceptions, this seems to be the general norm though. Is there a solution? All depends on the individual. You can't get the holy grail if you don't belong to that organization. You can't belong to that organization unless you study that style in their affiliated schools. You can go to any one of the many independent associations/organizations, but now you bring in the equation of reputability of that particular organization. In many cases, even if that organization passes the reputable test, the people of the holy grail still won't accept it. Hence the catch 22.

Any body have any alternative prospects?

 

[Sigung86]

Disco,

Tell the holders of the holy grail to byte the big one! LOL!

They are not a Tong who own all the martial arts. There are many independents out there who are reputable, very good, and not inclined to take you money just for the grin of it.

There are many instructors, Kenpo and otherwise, who don't belong to any association and aren't out to take your money, and do manage to make a great living at it.

Membership in an association doesn't guarantee repute or good intention. It indicates that the person who has the paper paid the money and took a test (sometimes)....

If you don't really feel like you have to be a member of a group where everyone is patting you on the back, reassuring your man/womanhood, and generally glad handing you... You could quite easily go it without the whole big money thing... And you could make a good living at it.

Hate to burst your bubble, but outside of Kenpo, and often times, in Kenpo, most people would not know a valid Kenpo organization (Whatever the Hell that is) from a 3 week old donut. Organizations only supply the credence that you read into it. It is all paper, razzle, und dazzle, and high-fiving bubbie.

People in organizations will generally leave you alone, unless they really are after your money, and unless you aren't sure of yourself, and need all the applaud, glitter, and absolutely fantastic certificates.... It ain't nothin' but a thang. Unfortunately, many, many poor fools and their money have been irrevocably or will soon be parted. :rofl:

To try and put it all in perspective.... Which Kenpo association is the most valid????


As the Right Reverend BoB might say ...

Gimmeeeeeee Slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack! :rofl:

I now suspect that I am due for some flack, so please feel free to shoot! :lol:

 

[Disco]

No flak, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I've subscribed to the holy grail mentality only to find that those that bless you with a wave of the grail are more corrupt in general than what people think.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Sigung86
Disco,

Tell the holders of the holy grail to byte the big one! LOL!

They are not a Tong who own all the martial arts. There are many independents out there who are reputable, very good, and not inclined to take you money just for the grin of it.

There are many instructors, Kenpo and otherwise, who don't belong to any association and aren't out to take your money, and do manage to make a great living at it.

Membership in an association doesn't guarantee repute or good intention. It indicates that the person who has the paper paid the money and took a test (sometimes)....

If you don't really feel like you have to be a member of a group where everyone is patting you on the back, reassuring your man/womanhood, and generally glad handing you... You could quite easily go it without the whole big money thing... And you could make a good living at it.

Hate to burst your bubble, but outside of Kenpo, and often times, in Kenpo, most people would not know a valid Kenpo organization (Whatever the Hell that is) from a 3 week old donut. Organizations only supply the credence that you read into it. It is all paper, razzle, und dazzle, and high-fiving bubbie.

People in organizations will generally leave you alone, unless they really are after your money, and unless you aren't sure of yourself, and need all the applaud, glitter, and absolutely fantastic certificates.... It ain't nothin' but a thang. Unfortunately, many, many poor fools and their money have been irrevocably or will soon be parted. :rofl:

To try and put it all in perspective.... Which Kenpo association is the most valid????


As the Right Reverend BoB might say ...

Gimmeeeeeee Slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack! :rofl:

I now suspect that I am due for some flack, so please feel free to shoot! :lol:

Dan, I wish you would stop being so reserved and be a little more forthcoming in how you really feel.

 

[webpage20022003]

i don't know why it costs more to have a black belt????? anybody knows why??????

you go from white to orange and eventually to black. I think it should cost the same for every belt you test

 

[Michael Billings]

Like by 3 hours to 2 days, at least my 3rd did. 4th Black took less time, but actually cost a little more due to my changing Associations in 1995.

It ties up 4 or 5 high ranking black belts to test me. My fee should helps defray the cost of their travel and expenses ... especially since I do not live in the Kenpo-mecca California. It is lots cheaper here in Texas at camp, where everyone is there anyway.

-Michael

 

[Doc]

especially since I do not live in the Kenpo-mecca California. It is lots cheaper here in Texas at camp, where everyone is there anyway.
-Michael [/B]

Kenpo mecca? Where? The grass is always greener ..... From what I hear, Texas is doing just fine.