HighKick
Senior Master
I would aver that brown belt is used more in JMA's and red belt is used more in KMA's.
Contradictions In The Martial Arts
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
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- Thread starter
- #702
In Taekwondo I know that red sometimes comes right before black depending on the school and other arts have other belt systems with their own colors that go in their own order, but in post #691 when I said brown belt is right before black belt, I said that because that's how it is in my dojo.
ap Oweyn56
Black Belt
Well yeah, I assumed as much. And said that the same was true of my taekwondo school. But it's not universally true, and I thought it was worth mentioning for the benefit of other people reading this thread and potentially wondering why their progression looks different. This shouldn't be a major preoccupation for anyone though, so I'll leave it there.
- Thread starter
- #704
Well the reason I mentioned that brown belt was before black belt, is because in post #622 Leviathan said that before the beginning is nothing. I was pointing out that, it depends on what kind of beginning you're talking about.
Appledog69 41
Brown Belt
I was sparring with this guy and I got him in a headlock but he tucked his chin in. I was extremely surprised I couldn't get around his neck. He explained it is common in wrestling to tuck in the neck to avoid a headlock. Frankly, based on the application that went down, I think tucking in the neck was a dishonest move. Then again, if he set it up, maybe it is ok to do that.
I doubt most people would have done what he did even someone who had trained, what do you think?
drop bear2 1
Sr. Grandmaster
You are kind of supposed to deal with people defending your attacks in sparring.
I street fight, the head lock is a forearm hook punch on the back of your opponent's head. If you hit on the back of your opponent's head hard enough, his neck tucking won't do any good.
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How is tucking in the chin a dishonest move? Your sparring partner did the correct thing if you were un able to respond to counter that. Then he explained to you what the tucking of his chin allowed him to do against your technique. He shared with you knowledge. That alone should make you better than what you were before sparring against him.
In MA, play defense is good, but play counter is better.
I love when my opponent applies head lock on me. The moment that he gets head lock on me, the moment that I apply under hook and move my body in front of him and throw him. My opponent's head lock is a free under hook for me. The key point is I have to rotate my waist faster enough to move my body in front of him.
Here is another good counter for head lock.
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Appledog69 41
Brown Belt
It did. Tucking in the chin isn't a dishonest move. But what he did may have been dishonest. I'm not sure. I need more practice with it.
Yes -- but you are giving him too much credit. Dishonest refers to wu de. When people watch joke kung fu and tai chi videos there are two kinds of funny thing that happens.
a) they move really slowly and appear unaware of what the other person is doing, often with hillarious results.
b) they move in ways that are not realistic, such as moving too many times in response to an attack.
A variation of this is when you punch and I block your punch slowly. Then, suddenly, you are pressing against my block. Your press is dishonest. No one can move or react that fast. It would be unfair to introduce that in training. And if you could do something similar to this, it would be considered bullying to require someone else to counter that.
In the a/b example above, A is more honest than people understand, b is considered dishonest, even though the techniques being performed may be completely normal.
If he was your training partner, what he did was dishonest move because he should give you that opportunity that you need.
Partner drill is not sport (competition).
That's good. I think we have a different perception of what is dishonest. Do you mean tricked you? If that's what you mean, then that's the core of fighting. I've never been in an honest fight. I practice deception in sparring. I'm not a jerk about but I'm always trying to mislead my opponent, lure, For me sparring is an excellent time to practice how to make your opponent think he's choosing his attack, but in reality, you are positioning him so that he will throw certain attacks that I'm expecting.
I think the only thing that is honest about a fight or even sparring is a person's character
The good thing is that the chin tuck helped you grow in terms of your skills.
MA is a big "dishonest" game.
- A groin kick follows with a face punch.
- A pull follows with a push.
- Throw red pepper powder at your opponent's face before you punch him.
- Add haymaker into your head lock.
- Cover your opponent's eyes when you take him down.
- ...
When you push your opponent's chin back so he can't see your leg attack, is this dishonest?
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- Thread starter
- #714
So to revive this thread I want to say that there is tons of controversy in the martial arts. Everybody's got their favorite style or styles and everybody's got their opinions on what works and what doesn't work but what I find silly is when somebody contradicts themselves. I've seen it on this thread, where people have contradicted themselves. It's one thing to contradict others but contradicting yourself is something else.
Prince_Alarming101 37
Senior Master
Yes, it's something else it's a fundamental bloody part of being human
Prince_Alarming101 37
Senior Master
It's an instinctive reaction I have left over from my schooldays. I also never sit or stand with my back to an open area or any kind of corridoor.
ap Oweyn56
Black Belt
How is that silly? Isn't that the point of a discussion? To puzzle through complex issues? That's going to result in contradictions, revisions, retractions, etc.
If all you want is a polished finished product, that's not a discussion. It's a showcase. Which happens often enough on discussion fora. But I wouldn't have thought that was the desired objective.
- Thread starter
- #719
It's silly when you contradict yourself (as some people have done on this forum). It's not always silly to contradict others but it is silly to contradict yourself.
Yes all of what you said is true when people contradict each other but Im talking about when somebody contradicts themself. For people to contradict other people, you can expect that to a certain extent especially on a forum about the martial arts but contradicting yourself, not others, is just plain ridiculous.
Which is why you should expect people to contradict each other if you want a discussion rather than a showcase but what Im talking about is when somebody contradicts themself, not when they contradict other people.
People keep missing the point.
ap Oweyn56
Black Belt
At the risk of being blunt, I haven't missed your point. I just disagree with it.
Contradictions and the effort to work through them, whether they're contradictions with someone else or within your own thinking, is a big part of the point of discourse. Unless they're dismissively shut down, which isn't really discourse anymore.
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