Contradictions In The Martial Arts

[HighKick1]

That's how my taekwondo school did it. But more common in my experience is red right before black. As it appears in the video you posted. I'd say it was an ITF v. WTF thing, but it's not. My first FMA school also taught taekwondo. Under ITF (as my first school did). And they had red right before black as well.

Mind you, that was the last belt system I participated in, so I'm not exactly current.

I would aver that brown belt is used more in JMA's and red belt is used more in KMA's.

 

[PhotonGuy4]

That's how my taekwondo school did it. But more common in my experience is red right before black. As it appears in the video you posted. I'd say it was an ITF v. WTF thing, but it's not. My first FMA school also taught taekwondo. Under ITF (as my first school did). And they had red right before black as well.

Mind you, that was the last belt system I participated in, so I'm not exactly current.

In Taekwondo I know that red sometimes comes right before black depending on the school and other arts have other belt systems with their own colors that go in their own order, but in post #691 when I said brown belt is right before black belt, I said that because that's how it is in my dojo.

 

[ap Oweyn10]

In Taekwondo I know that red sometimes comes right before black depending on the school and other arts have other belt systems with their own colors that go in their own order, but in post #691 when I said brown belt is right before black belt, I said that because that's how it is in my dojo.

Well yeah, I assumed as much. And said that the same was true of my taekwondo school. But it's not universally true, and I thought it was worth mentioning for the benefit of other people reading this thread and potentially wondering why their progression looks different. This shouldn't be a major preoccupation for anyone though, so I'll leave it there.

 

[PhotonGuy4]

Well yeah, I assumed as much. And said that the same was true of my taekwondo school. But it's not universally true, and I thought it was worth mentioning for the benefit of other people reading this thread and potentially wondering why their progression looks different. This shouldn't be a major preoccupation for anyone though, so I'll leave it there.

Well the reason I mentioned that brown belt was before black belt, is because in post #622 Leviathan said that before the beginning is nothing. I was pointing out that, it depends on what kind of beginning you're talking about.

 

[Appledog41]

MA is all about contradiction. When my teacher said the following to me, it confused me big time.

- If you can't get a head lock on your opponent, you are not a good wrestler.
- If your opponent can get a head lock on you, you are not a good wrestler.

I was sparring with this guy and I got him in a headlock but he tucked his chin in. I was extremely surprised I couldn't get around his neck. He explained it is common in wrestling to tuck in the neck to avoid a headlock. Frankly, based on the application that went down, I think tucking in the neck was a dishonest move. Then again, if he set it up, maybe it is ok to do that.

I doubt most people would have done what he did even someone who had trained, what do you think?

 

[drop bear103]

I was sparring with this guy and I got him in a headlock but he tucked his chin in. I was extremely surprised I couldn't get around his neck. He explained it is common in wrestling to tuck in the neck to avoid a headlock. Frankly, based on the application that went down, I think tucking in the neck was a dishonest move. Then again, if he set it up, maybe it is ok to do that.

I doubt most people would have done what he did even someone who had trained, what do you think?

You are kind of supposed to deal with people defending your attacks in sparring.

 

[Kung Fu Wang103]

I was sparring with this guy and I got him in a headlock but he tucked his chin in. I was extremely surprised I couldn't get around his neck. He explained it is common in wrestling to tuck in the neck to avoid a headlock. Frankly, based on the application that went down, I think tucking in the neck was a dishonest move. Then again, if he set it up, maybe it is ok to do that.

I doubt most people would have done what he did even someone who had trained, what do you think?

I street fight, the head lock is a forearm hook punch on the back of your opponent's head. If you hit on the back of your opponent's head hard enough, his neck tucking won't do any good.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was sparring with this guy and I got him in a headlock but he tucked his chin in. I was extremely surprised I couldn't get around his neck. He explained it is common in wrestling to tuck in the neck to avoid a headlock. Frankly, based on the application that went down, I think tucking in the neck was a dishonest move. Then again, if he set it up, maybe it is ok to do that.

I doubt most people would have done what he did even someone who had trained, what do you think?

How is tucking in the chin a dishonest move? Your sparring partner did the correct thing if you were un able to respond to counter that. Then he explained to you what the tucking of his chin allowed him to do against your technique. He shared with you knowledge. That alone should make you better than what you were before sparring against him.

 

[Kung Fu Wang103]

I was sparring with this guy and I got him in a headlock but he tucked his chin in. I was extremely surprised I couldn't get around his neck. He explained it is common in wrestling to tuck in the neck to avoid a headlock. Frankly, based on the application that went down, I think tucking in the neck was a dishonest move. Then again, if he set it up, maybe it is ok to do that.

I doubt most people would have done what he did even someone who had trained, what do you think?

In MA, play defense is good, but play counter is better.

I love when my opponent applies head lock on me. The moment that he gets head lock on me, the moment that I apply under hook and move my body in front of him and throw him. My opponent's head lock is a free under hook for me. The key point is I have to rotate my waist faster enough to move my body in front of him.

Here is another good counter for head lock.

 

[Appledog41]

How is tucking in the chin a dishonest move? Your sparring partner did the correct thing if you were un able to respond to counter that. Then he explained to you what the tucking of his chin allowed him to do against your technique. He shared with you knowledge. That alone should make you better than what you were before sparring against him.

It did. Tucking in the chin isn't a dishonest move. But what he did may have been dishonest. I'm not sure. I need more practice with it.

You are kind of supposed to deal with people defending your attacks in sparring.

Yes -- but you are giving him too much credit. Dishonest refers to wu de. When people watch joke kung fu and tai chi videos there are two kinds of funny thing that happens.

a) they move really slowly and appear unaware of what the other person is doing, often with hillarious results.
b) they move in ways that are not realistic, such as moving too many times in response to an attack.

A variation of this is when you punch and I block your punch slowly. Then, suddenly, you are pressing against my block. Your press is dishonest. No one can move or react that fast. It would be unfair to introduce that in training. And if you could do something similar to this, it would be considered bullying to require someone else to counter that.

In the a/b example above, A is more honest than people understand, b is considered dishonest, even though the techniques being performed may be completely normal.

 

[Kung Fu Wang103]

Tucking in the chin isn't a dishonest move.

If he was your training partner, what he did was dishonest move because he should give you that opportunity that you need.

Partner drill is not sport (competition).

 

[JowGaWolf]

It did. Tucking in the chin isn't a dishonest move. But what he did may have been dishonest. I'm not sure. I need more practice with it.

That's good. I think we have a different perception of what is dishonest. Do you mean tricked you? If that's what you mean, then that's the core of fighting. I've never been in an honest fight. I practice deception in sparring. I'm not a jerk about but I'm always trying to mislead my opponent, lure, For me sparring is an excellent time to practice how to make your opponent think he's choosing his attack, but in reality, you are positioning him so that he will throw certain attacks that I'm expecting.

I think the only thing that is honest about a fight or even sparring is a person's character

The good thing is that the chin tuck helped you grow in terms of your skills.

 

[Kung Fu Wang103]

That's good. I think we have a different perception of what is dishonest. Do you mean tricked you? If that's what you mean, then that's the core of fighting.

MA is a big "dishonest" game.

- A groin kick follows with a face punch.
- A pull follows with a push.
- Throw red pepper powder at your opponent's face before you punch him.
- Add haymaker into your head lock.
- Cover your opponent's eyes when you take him down.
- ...

When you push your opponent's chin back so he can't see your leg attack, is this dishonest?