Contact

[hogstooth]

The point sparring vs. real fighting thread got me back on this subject and I thought I would ask the question. How many of you incorporate full contact into your training? I will clairify Full contact. Sparring with the intent to hit your opponent. Usually to the body only with certain areas being off limits. But could also be with light contact to the face with mouth guard and hand pads. But mostly bare knuckles and to the body.
When I started in the MA it was a standard thing to see in most schools and readily accepted as a part of training. Now days because of law suits and the point sparring not to many practice this. Well except MMA and others along those lines. I still teach the way I was taught and no one has ever died from it or been severly injured. I have gone home bruised or with a shiner but nothing that was not something I ran into just being a stupid kid doing things my mom warned against. And none of my students have ever been injured severly either. Never been sued either. Contact is apart of the martial arts. After all it is martial. What do you think?

 

[jarrod]

there is usually a direct correlation between level of contact in a school & quality of fighters it produces. the trick is to find the balance between sparring so hard you have constant injuries, & using too light of contact & creating a false sense of ability. my kickboxing coach teaches kung fu as well, & his kickboxers & kung fu students all spar together. we use light-to-medium contact anywhere except the groin or the knee. if we are training knee & elbow strikes we do not do them to the head. we wear boxing gloves, shin or foot pads, cup, & mouthpiece. if someone has a fight coming up we add headgear & do fairly heavy contact.

my former muay thai coach was a big believer in "realistic" sparring, & did not like using headgear. he was very tough, & his students got very tough very fast, but he is now 35 & is too banged up to really training anymore.

got to have a balance.

jf

 

[Mimir]

We normally spar using controlled contact. We want the actually hit or kick the opponent, but not hard enough to cause harm. We do wear sparring gear including head gear. Head contact to the side is allowed with either foot or hand.

 

[DieRegteAdriaan]

Depends on the situation. If we are training for speed, contact would be controled, that is you will make contact but not break your training partner. We even do contact in line appication of forms (chokosen/renzuku bunkai in goju). Going in soft like a little toddler is very much discouraged by my master as he says in the street you wont be able to tell the atacker "hold on not so hard,my book says I must do it like this..". I have also witnessed places were the trainnees dont even form a decent fist to reduce contact and "make them faster" (how silly). Have also been to a place were they stand 2 meters apart and train there 2 point or 1 point sparring (now thats just plain stupid)

 

[Brian S]

Admittingly, sometimes we do get carried away with the contact at my school.
I look at it like this though. The police get tasered and peppersprayed for a reason. I went through several several gas chamber training sessions while in the army, for a reason. Martial artist should KNOW what it's like to be hit and kicked HARD. Safety is always first,but how are you going to know how you will react if it never happens? How are you going to know how to fight if you never fight?

 

[tshadowchaser]

I hate training with pads so i think that answeres your question. Yes i do make contact

 

[BrandonLucas]

I train in ITF TKD, and at our school, we do wear pads, but we also encourage using at least 75% power on your sparring partner. I hate wearing the pads, because they feel like they get in the way, but I see the necessity for them as well.

When sparring an opponent around the same size, we'll use full power, but we try to emphasize technique while using as much power as possible.

 

[stickarts]

In my younger days i sparred at times with very hard contact and there were many benefits to it including gaining a true sense of what I was and wasn't capable of doing. As I got older the bones just don't heal as well and I backed off. But I am glad i did it for a period of time.

 

[Nolerama]

I don't think I can ever go back to a little or no contact in training. One thing is for certain: there's no point in training if you haven't gotten over the fear of getting punched in the face, or being dominated on the ground or in the clinch. It's demoralizing and scary to most people. I think that should be the first thing in the MAs to learn... Know how to get hit and deal with it constructively.

 

[KempoGuy06]

at my dojo we have sparring. Full contact i guess you could call it. we spar with pads on the hands and feet (and anywhere else you like) or some people do it with out pads. we are given a basic area to strike at white (neck down - belt line up - no back) and as we progress we get more area to strike to (purple - head, blue - face...etc). I love sparring, I feel it helps me most of. I get to use my stuff in a some what "real" situation.

B

 

[tko4u]

We just train light contact in our sparring. we never go full contact. I think the parents on the sidelines would freak out if we ever did!

 

[shihansmurf]

The police get tasered and peppersprayed for a reason. I went through several several gas chamber training sessions while in the army, for a reason. Martial artist should KNOW what it's like to be hit and kicked HARD.

Quoted for truth.

When I teach there is a correlation between the student's experience/rank level and the level of contact.

White and yellow belts are light contact.
Green Belts go at medium.
Brown and Black belts are heavy contact.

We wear pads and allow face/head contact at the same level of contact as body shots.We also throw and ground fight.

I feel that the only way to learn to fight is to do so, and although drills and forms are valuable tools to help internalize the skills, application against a non-compliant partner that is trying t hurt you right back is the only to gain real fighting skills.

Mark

 

[tko4u]

Quoted for truth.

When I teach there is a correlation between the student's experience/rank level and the level of contact.

White and yellow belts are light contact.
Green Belts go at medium.
Brown and Black belts are heavy contact.

We wear pads and allow face/head contact at the same level of contact as body shots.We also throw and ground fight.

I feel that the only way to learn to fight is to do so, and although drills and forms are valuable tools to help internalize the skills, application against a non-compliant partner that is trying t hurt you right back is the only to gain real fighting skills.

Mark

What do you train in mark? Also, do you have many injuries while allowing face contact?

 

[Ninebird8]

In the old days, my Eagle claw school was light to medium contact with no pads. My Shaolin school was very rough and you had to fight your animal style using no pads, but we also trained occasionally with pads for tournament competition. However, if you were snake, you fought snake, preying mantis the same thing, etc. and the hits were for real. We supplemented this with staff hits to different parts of the body and other body toughening exercises. However, at age 50, and 12 years of tai chi now, I am all for not being in the way. I now use footwork and try to minimize the blows, but I teach my students still with out pads. They are told to control their power, and respect their classmates. However, when I spar them, especially with traditional Shaolin or Ying Jow, the hits are real, the locks are executed to a point, the chin na from white crane or tai chi are also applied until one taps quickly etc. I believe in not getting students hurt but also pressing them constantly when fighting to give the ability to relax, adapt, get use to being hit, and realizing that no matter how good one is, you will still get hit! I would rather they flinch in the school than on the street. However, I do not believe I could train them like I learned back in the70s, 80s, and 90s, as I would probably get sued now!

 

[clfsean]

Gotta make some contact in there for a number of reasons, offensive & defensive.

The biggest thing IMO is that this is a contact game. You're gonna (oughta) get hit, often & sometimes harder than you'd like & sometimes not as hard as you like. Point is, you're gonna get hit.

 

[Ninebird8]

Amen to the last comments! I remember in the NYC school once, one of my classmates, now my closest kung fu brother for 25 years, and I were sparring. We both spun and did spinning backfists to each other's eye, nailed each other on the button, both went down bleeding from the eye, and laughing the whole way while our teacher shook his head. And suddenly, someone (must have been a beginner...LOL), was heard to say, " I did not know you could get hurt in kung fu!" We laughed all the way to getting stitches in Manhattan. Funny thing though, and I am sure some of you can identify with this, the people who you fought and bled with the most, ended up being your closest brothers/sisters and best friends outside the school! Oh, those were the days!!

 

[Nolerama]

You know a person better when you fight them. There's a certain level of respect that comes from fighting/sparring.

 

[Twin Fist]

training in the martial arts without contact is pointless, worse, i think it may well be theft

to go into more detail, we HIT. with control, but with force.
head
face(at intermeadiate levels)
torso
groin
when you get to intermeadiate/advanced levels, we start allowing takedowns as well

 

[shihansmurf]

What do you train in mark? Also, do you have many injuries while allowing face contact?

Most of my training has been in shotokan and american kenpo. I boxed for several years.

As far as injuries go, the only significant head injuries I have had in martial arts have all happened while engaged in light contact sparring or, one one occasion, during a choreographed demo.I have been hurt much worse in football.

I am a big proponent of contact fighting but only when done so in a safe manner. I don't do MMA fighting in any formal sense(I've been to a couple of smoker type events) so I don't do heavy contact with 4oz gloves. We use head gear, 14 or 16 oz gloves or "JKD" type gloves, feet gear, and mouth guards. While it is important to train realisticaly, it is also important to train in a manner that doesn't permanantly injure.

Mark

 

[hogstooth]

We just train light contact in our sparring. we never go full contact. I think the parents on the sidelines would freak out if we ever did!

I figured someone would bring up the parent aspect. I understand that most parents don't want little johnny or susy to get hurt. I don't allow my beginner students to go all out. They are limited to a certain amount of techniques and certain targets. This allows them to experience what it feels like to get hit and to hit. When they reach the intermidiate levels they are given more freedom and at Brown they go all out.
My parents have never freaked out because conditioning is a key factor in their training and because of that my students can take the contact. They have never complained and they can handle themselves if given a real confrontation.
I think where we differ on this is if they have never been hit, really hit, how can you claim that they are prepaired to defend themselves? The first time they get rocked they may just crawl into the fetal position and the hoodlum can have his way with them. I respect your position and understand why you hold it but I think by never having contact the students are missing an important element of their development as MAists. No offense to you, just my opinion. God Bless.