Complex calculations behind the Wal-Mart vote

Scott T

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If there is a labor shortage then as an employer the market dictates that you need to pay more. If there's a labor surplus like here then employers can pay less. The market dictates. The problems with Unions is the artificially inflate wages beyond market value and it becomes cheaper to outsource to china

I wondered how long it would take for someone to 'blame the unions',,,
 

Scott T

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Not blaming thats just the facts
So multimillion dollar pay packages and bonuses for upper management, regardless of quality of performance, have absolutely nothing to do with profit levels? it's all on the unions in your mind?
 
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Big Don

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So multimillion dollar pay packages and bonuses for upper management, regardless of quality of performance, have absolutely nothing to do with profit levels? it's all on the unions in your mind?
Did you read the article linked in the OP? The unions are, by unfairly targeting Wal Mart, running 1800+ jobs out of DC, does that help the poor?
 

Scott T

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One decent paying job rather than 3 crap-paying jobs to survive would help the poor a hell of a lot more. As Ballen said:
If they want to make more money go find a better job
 

ballen0351

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So multimillion dollar pay packages and bonuses for upper management, regardless of quality of performance, have absolutely nothing to do with profit levels? it's all on the unions in your mind?
Yes when the unions drive up labor costs higher then fair market value for the job. The multimillion pay for one or two CEOs is still paid if the labor is in Alabama or India so its a non issue. But when unions causing wages for a job that should be paid $8 an hour to be artificially inflated to $15 is a problem.
 

oftheherd1

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One decent paying job rather than 3 crap-paying jobs to survive would help the poor a hell of a lot more. As Ballen said:

Not that most people have three crap paying jobs, so what is your point? And you can't just pull high paying jobs out of thin air. There has to be a profit margin for a business to stay in business. China hasn't gotten there yet, but one reason Japan and some other countries have done so well was a better product and a lower but still decent wage. Unions have their place to prevent excesses by business, but if they inflate wages too much, they eventually pull companies down.

Granted that I don't agree with the lack of tariffs on some goods. Nor do I agree with the inflated money some CEOs pull down. But shareholders apparently do.
 

billc

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So multimillion dollar pay packages and bonuses for upper management, regardless of quality of performance, have absolutely nothing to do with profit levels?

Eventually, when these overpaid guys keep performing poorly, their corporation will lose money and will fail, and another corporation, paying their smarter upper management people multimillion dollar pay packages will come in and take over...much the way Wal-Mart has done across the country. When they do something stupid they will eventually disapear, as did K-mart, and Montgomery Wards and Cee Bees and all the other big chains that were eventually defeated by up and comers...it is the way things are supposed to work...
 

arnisador

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Probably so, however, they aren't whining to have WalMart do that, are they?

Yes, they have been--the lack of reasonable health care benefits has been a big issue here. I'm not in favor of targeting just the big stores like this but benefits has indeed been a big point of discussion.
 

Steve

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If I can out my hippy hat on for a second, if we had universal healthcare, it would eliminate that as a concern for people looking for full time work, and for businesses.


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arnisador

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If I can out my hippy hat on for a second, if we had universal healthcare, it would eliminate that as a concern for people looking for full time work, and for businesses.

Agreed. I don't know about you, but I know lots of martial artists who couldn't start their own school because of this--and more who only could because their spouse had good health insurance. It's always been the one big thing.
 

Steve

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Agreed. I don't know about you, but I know lots of martial artists who couldn't start their own school because of this--and more who only could because their spouse had good health insurance. It's always been the one big thing.
I know many, many people who have marketable skills that remain 'hobby' only because they have to work 40 hours at a job they hate in order to have health care. Think about the boon to small businesses universal healthcare could be.

And then, maybe Wal-Mart would have some local competitors that they can't put out of business.
 

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So, DC wants to boost Min wage from 8 to 12 bucks an hour.

What about the guy who busted their *** the last few years and is currently making 12/hr? He just went from 'experienced' to 'newb' income over night.

Does the law mandate the big boxes adjust everyone? Or just a demoralizing levelling of the playing field with now decreased incentives to perform? I know I used to love busting my *** for those annual 5c raises. /sarcasm

Min wage needs to be abolished. Unskilled labor shouldn't make the same as skilled. Some jobs just aren't worth paying top buck for. Really. Should a guy washing lettuce make the same amount as the guy you talk to to get your internet to work? What's the point in learning anything if you make the same as the slacker who spent his high school days stoned and sleeping? Why should someone put extra effort in to get ahead if they'll get crap return?

Walmart should pull out of DC, cancel the 3 planned stores, if legally possible cancel the 3 in progress builds, and look to the surrounding business friendly communities and build there. Let the DC folks commute. Or not. 5,000 freshly unemployed people should help DC greatly. 3 years of free unemployment benefits, hell we'll be in Obama's 3rd term before the effects hit.
 

Steve

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The irony here, Bob, is that there are many communities that would love to keep WalMart out, and if this works, it may become a tactic. I can hear Leslie Knope saying to the rest of the Pawnee city council. It's a ready made Parks and Rec plot.
 

oftheherd1

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So, DC wants to boost Min wage from 8 to 12 bucks an hour.

What about the guy who busted their *** the last few years and is currently making 12/hr? He just went from 'experienced' to 'newb' income over night.

Does the law mandate the big boxes adjust everyone? Or just a demoralizing levelling of the playing field with now decreased incentives to perform? I know I used to love busting my *** for those annual 5c raises. /sarcasm

Min wage needs to be abolished. Unskilled labor shouldn't make the same as skilled. Some jobs just aren't worth paying top buck for. Really. Should a guy washing lettuce make the same amount as the guy you talk to to get your internet to work? What's the point in learning anything if you make the same as the slacker who spent his high school days stoned and sleeping? Why should someone put extra effort in to get ahead if they'll get crap return?

Walmart should pull out of DC, cancel the 3 planned stores, if legally possible cancel the 3 in progress builds, and look to the surrounding business friendly communities and build there. Let the DC folks commute. Or not. 5,000 freshly unemployed people should help DC greatly. 3 years of free unemployment benefits, hell we'll be in Obama's 3rd term before the effects hit.

Good points. As to DC, they don't want to increase the minimum wage. That was covered earlier as I recall. They just want businesses the size of Walmart to pay more than the current minimum wage. DC government doesn't want to pay that much to their employees. They probably can't. The mayor keeps saying he will veto the bill, or that he will study it for the maximum time before he makes a decision. Maybe needs more time to see how much he can milk Walmart for?

I suspect it wouldn't be too much of a problem for Walmart to cancel all their stores, unless they have made some enforcible agreement with DC to build and remain for a certain amount of time. I don't know about the other stores they are currently building, but one will also have a fair number of condominiums over the store. At the price of condominiums near capitol hill, they could sell them, then sell the retail space to someone else, and still probably make a profit.
 

Bob Hubbard

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Something else that needs repeating.

Walmart, in fact no employer is responsible for paying a so called 'living wage'. That's just BS. An employers job is to make maximum profit for the company. A corporation is responsible for making maximum return for the stock holders. Pushing a mandate through that only certain companies pay more than others because some clueless politician who is ignorant of business or a particular business's PnL is, well, ********.

Sure, Walmart would pay cashiers $1 an hour if they could. There's nothing wrong with that.
There's also nothing wrong with people saying "No, I want more than that."

There was a Burger King near me that over -10- years ago was paying $8.75/hr. They were always hiring, always short handed, and had a hell of a time finding people to work that location. (Min wage was $4.25/hr at the time).
I interviewed last year for a sales rep job. It paid $14/hr. I was the only one of 4 people to show up for the 1st day. Spent the last year trying to get more people to do the job, and couldn't even get people to the interview stage.

I get it, people can't live on min-wage. But I run several businesses (MT is 1, my photography, web design and now again hosting are 3 others), and still picked up a part time job to help make ends meet. As an employee, sure I'd love some government asshat to make my boss pay me more. As the guy on the other end who might endup having to pay someone more than a job is worth though, I want the government to gtfo of business all together.

Right now for example, McDonalds makes a measly 6c profit on it's Dollar Menu items. That's 95 burgers per hour per employee on shift at $5.75/hr pay.
BurgerKing says they -lose- 10-15c per double cheeseburger on their $1 menu.

If you force businesses to raise their pay, they -must- raise prices, decrease staff, or decrease offerings to remain profitable.

Going back to Walmart, does that mandate only apply to the stores in the effected region? What about the companies delivery people?

The document [PDF], first obtained by the Huffington Post, shows that Walmart workers can earn a base pay as low as $8.00, and earn wage increases in increments as low as 20 or 40 cents. ”As a result, a ‘solid performer’ who starts at Walmart as a cart pusher making $8 an hour and receives one promotion, about the average rate, can expect to make $10.60 after working at the company for 6 years,”
http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/11/19/leaked-document-reveals-walmarts-meager-compensation-structure/

This goes back to my earlier argument.
If -I- busted my *** for 6 years to work my way up the chain, showed up when sick, put family aside for the job, came in or stayed late when asked, etc., and some newb started making the same as me, I'd be pissed. Your 'solid performer' would be gone as I'd feel my past efforts were a waste.

“I struggle to support my family on $14,000 a year,” said Sara Gilbert, a customer service manager at the company for three years. “My children are in state housing and we get subsidized housing and food stamps.”
Tough ****. I wish someone else paid for my food, housing and utilities for me. What Sara's really saying here is "Walmart pays me $14,000 per year, and the tax payers pay me $14,300, for a real annual income of $28,300." ($6k/yr rent, $900/yr gas, $900/yr electric, $6,500/yr food)
$30,000 per year income breaks down to $577 / week which is $14.43/hr. Allow $6k in taxes (20% approximation of fed, state, fica, etc) leaves $24,000.
Ms. Gilbert most likely pays only FICA as at $14k, with kids she probably pays nothing in income tax, and in fact probably gets a nice kickback in credits.

But incase she really does want to get ahead and stop being a jackass of boss holder: 100 Businesses you can start right now

(Oh yeah, in case anyone needs a website, hi. Shameless plug. :D
 

Steve

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Bob, one thing you said struck me as a little funny. I see your points, but who is forcing McDs and BK to set their prices so low? If they're cutting their profit margin so close, don't you think there's a reason? Can't we assume they're making their money some where else?

I'm not speaking to the wage issue. I'm strictly reacting to your comments regarding profitability. Let's be real. Wal-Mart and McDs are making money hand over fist. They're not being victimized. Now, small businesses? Yeah. Maybe.
 
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