Cindy Sheehan

[Tgace]

Id have to agree.

 

[Sapper6]

excerpts taken from http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=politics&id=3382521 .

PR Machine Behind Cindy Sheehan?

With the President back at his Crawford ranch, the anti-war protest right outside his ranch is getting a lot more media attention. ABC7 looks at who is financing the operation and who's providing on-the-ground support.

The camp at Crawford is full of Cindy Sheehan supporters, people from all walks of life, but off to the side are a small group of professionals skilled in politics and public relations who are marketing Cindy Sheehan's message.

Cindy Sheehan kneels before a cross with her son's name on it, touches his picture, wipes her tears. It's an outpouring of emotion that is part of a scheduled news event organized daily for the television, radio and print reporters who crowd in to capture a mother's grief.

Leading the group is Fenton Communications employee, Michele Mulkey, based in San Francisco. Fenton specializes in public relations for liberal non-profits.

Their bills are being paid for by True Majority, a non-profit set up by Ben Cohen -- of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream fame.

yummy ice cream, bad politics

Cohen's group has teamed up with Berkeley based MoveOn.org, an anti-Bush group co-founded by Joan Blades.

Gold Star mother Karen Meredith came here from Mountain View. Her son Ken Ballard died last year.

Karen Meredith, Gold Star mother: "Sometimes things don't feel quite right to me. They don't feel wrong, but maybe that's how they do it in the marketing business."

ABC7's Mark Matthews: "You feel you're part of a marketing business?"

Karen Meredith: "Possibly. Yeah I think so."

no way!!! say it ain't so...

There is also the "Cindy you don't speak for me tour," a caravan of military wives and mothers led by Deborah Johns of Roseville. Her son William is a marine who has served two tours of duty in Iraq.

Johns and her supporters are traveling to Crawford to confront Cindy Sheehan.

kick her *** sea-bass!!!!

oh no, no politics there...

 

[qizmoduis]

I want to know why you think this one is of such greater importance than any other mother who has lost her son in combat?

I don't. It's the conservatives who have latched onto her story, because she's a military mother who has dared not toe the line they've drawn for military families. She challenged Mr. Bush, and the right-wing vultures swooped down en-masse with screeches of "Liberal tool!" and "Disgrace to her son!", simply because she did something just a little off-beat.

I think the real question here is this: Why do conservatives believe that families who've lost their children in this debacle should keep quiet and/or praise Mr. Bush's disastrous policies?

 

[michaeledward]

I don't. It's the conservatives who have latched onto her story, because she's a military mother who has dared not toe the line they've drawn for military families. She challenged Mr. Bush, and the right-wing vultures swooped down en-masse with screeches of "Liberal tool!" and "Disgrace to her son!", simply because she did something just a little off-beat.

I think the real question here is this: Why do conservatives believe that families who've lost their children in this debacle should keep quiet and/or praise Mr. Bush's disastrous policies?

An astute observation.

Anyone else who has issued a challenge on the activities in Iraq, has been listed as a traitor, or worse, a liberal. Somehow ... we hate America; we are conspiracy theorists looking for stolen elections (by the voting machines or by the Supreme Court). Immediately, all arguments are cast aside like an Alan Colmes comment.

Ms. Sheehan is a bit more difficult for the Karl Rove's of the world to criticize. She has become the tip of the spear that those with legitimate concerns can align themselves behind, without the silly McCarthy-like attacks. Sure, the right wing is doing their best to gain some traction against Ms. Sheehan, and those who oppose the war (questions about who is funding Ms. Sheehan, for instance - she already met with the President - mis-reporting the details of the first meeting [ascribing to the President Ms. Sheehan's re-connection to her family when the original news report indicated it was the other families that created that connection])

This woman is being steam-rolled by very powerful destructive political forces. Who knew that being 'swift-boated' was going to be a verb; I mean, other than John McCain.

 

[DngrRuss]

Wow, so much to get snippy about, so little time...

Questioning the administration regarding the death of Casey Sheehan, and any other soldier for that matter, is neither unAmerican, disrespectful, nor is it improper.

When a soldier signs on the dotted line, he is putting his own life and safety on the line to defend our country from all threats. Yes, he has to follow the orders of the Comander in Chief, the will of the Congress, his commanding officers, etc. Only if the order is unjust or illegal does the soldier have the right and/or duty to not follow those orders. Noone is denying any of that. Noone is denying that Casey Sheehan did his duty and made the ultimate sacrifice for his country. The question here is, did his country squander that sacrifice?

Comparisons have been made between the current war in Iraq and the Vietnam war. There is at least one very distinct difference: In Vietnam, there was always one answer to the question "why are we here?"- to stop the spread of communism and protect our country from the domino-effect. Whether you agree with that reasoning or not, whether you supported that war or not, at least you knew where the administration stood and what the facts (at least what we were being told) were.

With the Iraq war, the story keeps changing to either fit a current political climate, or hide the fact that we have made a rather large-scale blunder. If we were going in to protect ourselves against WMD's, and none were found, I would want to know why my son sacrificed his life and noone was accountable in the administration. Then the story changes to Hussein=BinLaden. Then that proves not to be accurate. Again, why is my son dead, and noone in the administration accountable? Then the story is that this is the "war on terror" (sidenote: haven't we learned that when we declare a war on a noun- like drugs, poverty, illiteracy, terror, etc.- that it just doesn't work), but the terrorists weren't bombing Iraq until we destabilized it. Again, my son pays the ultimate sacrifice, and noone up the food chain is accountable?

This administration has done very little other than to give stump speeches and redneck-rhetoric to rally the country behind it. I would also like some answers. I want the government to be accountable for it's actions. You tell me I'm threatened, by God, send in the Marines to kick ***. But if the threat is not exactly what you said it was, then proves not to be there at all, I want some answers. And I haven't lost a child (though a few of my students are over there). I would demand answers if I had.

Does Ms. Sheehan deserve a private audience with the President? I don't think so. I agree that there are millions of prople with millions of different grievences with this government, so seeing each of them is unrealistic. Seeing Ms. Sheehan specifically would probably be political suicide for the President.

Do I think that her questions deserve answers? Abso-friggin'-lutley. This idea that the President has no accountability is absurd. He works for ME. He works for Ms. Sheehan. He works for every American on this board. He may be the CEO, but we are the stockholders.

How many executives of any business would survive the ax if they were this inconsistent and, imho, incompetent? If I were the CEO of a company and one of my executives gives me information that causes me to take action that puts the company and myself in jeopardy, and this information proves to be false, I would fire his a** and do what I can to fix the problem. Noone in this administration has paid any price for the actions of this country- though many soldiers have.

I have stated on other threads that I do not support a pull-out of Iraq. I want to be a good American and a good citizen of the world. My country screwed up this situation, and my country needs to fix it. I want my administration, my government, and my soldiers to be accountable. I want to see the best result from this debaucle as possible. I don't think I'm gonna get it as long as this administration is in power, changing stories, not accounting for thier actions, and not taking the bull by the horns and fixing the situation.

I as an American am embarrassed by what my government has made me look like to the rest of the world. I am outraged that they are not doing everything they can to fix the situation and firing those who caused it. It continues to make us all look like a bunch of trigger-happy rednecks that shoot first, then don't even bother to ask questions.

All Ms. Sheehan wants is accountability. I think she deserves it, as do we all. Brave soldiers are willing to sacrifice thier lives for us. I for one do not want those sacrifices to be wasted in my name, by an administration that can't seem to get it's story straight, and is allied by a movement that throws out labels like "unAmerican, traitor", and the ever popular "liberal" for those who wants answers and accountability.

 

[heretic888]

Excellent post, Russ.

Something in particular I'd like to chime in about...

Then the story changes to Hussein=BinLaden. Then that proves not to be accurate.

On an episode of The Daily Show several months back, they actually showed video footage of Vice President Cheney explicitly "confusing" Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden over five times in three different speeches. For example, when the issue of when Bin Laden would be apprehended was brought up, Mr. Cheney something to the effect of "Hussein is a very difficult man to find". Apparently, he didn't even realize he'd made the mistake.

Personally, I found it hilarious. And depressing.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Of course that all side-steps the point of why you folks have elevated Ms. Sheehan above other parents of sons and daughters who have died in action. It also insinuates that you think the difference is Cindy's politics are more enlightened while, as Rus insinuated, other parents "Tow the line" (i.e. are idiots who don't know any better, right?). Basically, you are saying that it isn't their loss that you care about, it's whether their politics are correct. Cindy Sheehan's politics are correct, so she is worthy of admiration.

You can't gloss over this by questioning why conservatives question Cindy's motives by simply suggesting that she has the right to say what she wants. Of course she does, men like Casey died for that right. That's also the right of other military parents who have lost sons and daughters who have no desire for Cindy Sheehan to be their self-appointed spokes person.

"Maureen Dowd of the New York Times portrays Mrs. Sheehan as a distraught mom standing heroically outside the guarded gates of the most powerful and inhumane man on earth, President Bush. Ms. Dowd is so moved by Mrs. Sheehan's plight that she bestowed upon her and all grieving parents the title of "absolute moral authority." That characterization epitomizes the arrogance and condescension of anyone who would presume to understand and speak for all of us. How can we all possess "absolute moral authority" when we hold so many different perspectives?"

Ronald R. Griffin

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007122

 

[Sapper6]

perhaps he could blame Prez Bush for this one too...

**MODERATOR NOTE**

Post edited to comply with copyright policy.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Sr. Moderator.

 

[sgtmac_46]

perhaps he could blame Prez Bush for this one too...

And they didn't get BEATEN? In TEXAS?! That'll probably be the driver's defense. "We were black in Texas, we weren't pulling over."

 

[heretic888]

perhaps he could blame Prez Bush for this one too...

Umm... exactly what relevance does this have to the discussion at hand?? Its as confusing as the earlier post about the loony driver running over crosses...

Also, when quoting a news story verbatim it always helps to actually cite one's source.

Laterz. :asian:

 

[Sapper6]

Umm... exactly what relevance does this have to the discussion at hand?? Its as confusing as the earlier post about the loony driver running over crosses...

Also, when quoting a news story verbatim it always helps to actually cite one's source.

Laterz. :asian:

relevence? to you, none.

the source is the Associated Press and almost all local texas affiliates, just an excerpt of course. ya think i thought it up all by myself? check it out, it's legit.

 

[heretic888]

relevence? to you, none.

A snappish personal attack in lieu of an actual logical response? Ahem...

Appeal To Ridicule

Personal Attack

ya think i thought it up all by myself?

Actually, the thought never crossed my mind.

However, to put it bluntly, not all sources are created equal. That is why it is important to use citations, as opposed to simply expecting others to take what you say on blind faith.

That being said, its more than likely that you used copy-and-paste to present that excerpt, so my guess is the source is online.

Laterz. :asian:

 

[Sapper6]

A snappish personal attack in lieu of an actual logical response? Ahem...

Appeal To Ridicule

Personal Attack



Actually, the thought never crossed my mind.

However, to put it bluntly, not all sources are created equal. That is why it is important to use citations, as opposed to simply expecting others to take what you say on blind faith.

That being said, its more than likely that you used copy-and-paste to present that excerpt, so my guess is the source is online.

Laterz. :asian:

my apologies if offense was taken. when a thread such as this is taken to extreme discussion, as this one has with 7+ pages of rhetoric, some things posted tend to be "irrelevent". it's not the first time this thread has seen "irrelevency" and probably won't be the last. seeing that this took place shortly afterward of an "appearance" at the Sheehan camp, and his speedy departure make it perfectly relevent, since "Cindy Sheehan" is the topic of this thread. i could mostly hypothesize in stating that mr. sharpton was at the Sheehan camp for a PR visit, and probably got held up, hence causing him to be late for his next, regularly scheduled PR venue, hence blatently breaking the law and playing dumb when caught. of course all hypothetical thinking of course. i left the article open for personal interpretation by others here. that's all.

thanks for the links. pretty interesting stuff there, i must say so myself. saved in favorites for future reference. :supcool:

and you are correct in assuming the sharpton article was the offspring of "copy-and-paste" trickery. like i stated before, my primary source was the AP. you can reference more on the story at foxnews, cnn, etc. i should have mentioned this in the post containing the story, an obvious oversight on my part. i hope this one clarifies any doubt of media orgin.

good day :asian:

 

[heretic888]

my apologies if offense was taken.

No worries. It takes a helluva lot more than that to offend me.

when a thread such as this is taken to extreme discussion, as this one has with 7+ pages of rhetoric, some things posted tend to be "irrelevent". it's not the first time this thread has seen "irrelevency" and probably won't be the last. seeing that this took place shortly afterward of an "appearance" at the Sheehan camp, and his speedy departure make it perfectly relevent, since "Cindy Sheehan" is the topic of this thread. i could mostly hypothesize in stating that mr. sharpton was at the Sheehan camp for a PR visit, and probably got held up, hence causing him to be late for his next, regularly scheduled PR venue, hence blatently breaking the law and playing dumb when caught. of course all hypothetical thinking of course. i left the article open for personal interpretation by others here. that's all.

That's all well and good, but...

While I don't really have a strong position about Ms. Sheehan one way or the other, I feel that logical discourse should be true to form. This means not wandering off into fairly "irrelevant" side issues like who agrees with her policies about Israel, who ran over what crosses on their way to see her, or who got pulled over after meeting with her 3 hours earlier. They're all distractors, in my opinion.

Really, though, I think this discussion has just about played itself out.

thanks for the links. pretty interesting stuff there, i must say so myself. saved in favorites for future reference. :supcool:

No prob.

and you are correct in assuming the sharpton article was the offspring of "copy-and-paste" trickery. like i stated before, my primary source was the AP. you can reference more on the story at foxnews, cnn, etc. i should have mentioned this in the post containing the story, an obvious oversight on my part. i hope this one clarifies any doubt of media orgin.

Yup. Laterz. :asian:

 

[Rick Wade]

As much as I hate to admit it I am still paying attention to HER, but here is what is amazing with everything that happened last weekend in crawford, with the anti war protest vs. the Cindy you don't speak for me protest all I saw on any of the news networks was Sharpton with Sheehan. Now is that fair coverage of what is going on? NO.

And talk about changing view on the President's side here is a little tid bit for ya. When ask by Bill Mar on his show the other night She said I am glad the President didn't come talk to me that allowed me to stay out here longer and turn this into a noble cause (did she think this wasn't a noble cause to begin with) now with the help of everyone else we will get help get the troops out of Iraq sooner. Who does she think she is she doesn't dictate foreign policy.

P.S. Her life is falling apart CINDY go home and take care of your mother and try to save your marrage, no one in your own family support you. You are being used as a political pawn.

Man this make my blood boil

Rick

 

[michaeledward]

And talk about changing view on the President's side here is a little tid bit for ya. When ask by Bill Mar on his show the other night She said I am glad the President didn't come talk to me that allowed me to stay out here longer and turn this into a noble cause (did she think this wasn't a noble cause to begin with) now with the help of everyone else we will get help get the troops out of Iraq sooner. Who does she think she is she doesn't dictate foreign policy.

Somebody has been listening to Laura Ingraham. This argument is an argument of character assassination. Spin away. Spin away.

It certainly represents the 'tin ear' the adminstration has concerning anything beyond it's campaign contributors.

If the President, on August 7th, came out and sat down with Ms. Sheehan and explained the Project for a New American Century, Ms Sheehan would not have been a media attraction. That the President, and his handlers, decided not to face someone who objects to their policy, has converted Ms. Sheehan from a distraught, perhaps neurotic, Gold Star Mother, into a Media Event. Something that all media people are interested in during the dog-days of August. Anything to change the topic from Ms. Holloway.

Ms. Sheehan has made it acceptable to question the reasons and execution of the war in Iraq; something ambassador Joseph Wilson did at great personal peril. (A recent survey shows 9 out of 10 Americans feel it is acceptable for war-dissentors to express their opinions).

To take the statement "I am glad the President didn't come talk to me" and turn it into 'proof' that Ms Sheehan is out for her own glorification, is 'swift-boating' in the finest tradition. I expect that from Ms. Ingraham or Ms. Coulture.

Why the hell are our soldiers dying in Iraq?

I think it's time to update that other thread.

 

[Cryozombie]

Just a little food for thought on the subject... since everyone seems to be blaming this war on Bush...

I was watching a Movie today, an import from Japan. It was about a ninja hired to assassinate the Shogun because, at the core of the whole thing, some of his people were upset that he was wasting the lives of their soldiers on a war with Korea.

The Ninja sneaks in, wakes the Shogun up, and has a chat with him.

The shogun basically says: "Do you think the armies all just stand up and march at my order? The will of one old man? No, I just carry out the will of the state... you can kill me, but do you think its going to change anything? And if I went against the will, do you not think I would simply be replaced by someone who would do what they want?"

Thats the Gist of it anyhow. And it really fits... I mean, let me ask you?

Is this REALLY Bush's war? Did he conceive of it, make the troops of other nations go fight, etc? I think there are far more people involved than a figurehead leader, but he is doing his job well... Keeping your focus on him and not them.

Call me a conspiracy nut... but ultimatley, its not Bush's power fueling the war... Its just convienent to blame him.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Keeping your focus on him and not them.

Reminds me of Hitchiker's Guide To the Galaxy where it talks about Zaphod Beeblebroz as the Galactic President and that his real job was not to wield power but to distract attention away from it.

 

[Flatlander]

That would be Zaphod Beeblebrox. And yes, a most fascinating similarity. :ultracool

 

[Cryozombie]

Keeping your focus on him and not them.

Reminds me of Hitchiker's Guide To the Galaxy where it talks about Zaphod Beeblebroz as the Galactic President and that his real job was not to wield power but to distract attention away from it.

Well, like I said, maybe i am just turning into a conspiracy nut... but I think this is much bigger than the Prez.