Chuck Norris and TKD

Earl Weiss

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I was talking about now regarding sparring.

Btw, speaking of sparring, your claim that the WTFs decision to dispatch face punching had "no basis in history" seems to be incorrect.
I never said that. Perhaps someone else. did.
 

Earl Weiss

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Because it leads to reductio ad absurdum if you do. I am not practising anything, if patterns define an art.
If you are kicking and punching without patterns the you are not practicing any art, unless it's Loopy Do. If you ad your own patterns, then for certain it's Loopy Do.
 
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Earl Weiss

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What If I make up my own forms like ATA, Jhoon Rhee, etc and practise those. Am I suddenly doing TaeKwonDo again then?

Or do you not consider those places to be training TaeKwonDo?
I don't consider it to be TK-D. They can adopt whatever moniker they like as well as responsibility for any resulting confusion.
 

Earl Weiss

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I'm guessing you didn't notice the word Tang Soo Do Open Championship, meaning TaeKwonDo practitioners were allowed to compete.
Not only did I notice, I guess you have no idea that whatever rule set they decided to adopt for "Open" Championships has no bearing on what might be considered any type of sparring and therefore no basis for any claim of similarity between "ITF" sparring and "TSD Sparring" or any other type of sparring for that matter.
 

Earl Weiss

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I'm guessing you didn't notice the word Tang Soo Do Open Championship, meaning TaeKwonDo practitioners were allowed to compete.

We had a guy join ITF who came from a TaeKwonDo school in Serbia,
headed by an ITF instructor who opened his own place and ditched patterns practise.
Is there a point to that anecdote?


Again- are you related to Acronym?
 

InfiniteLoop

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Not only did I notice, I guess you have no idea that whatever rule set they decided to adopt for "Open" Championships has no bearing on what might be considered any type of sparring and therefore no basis for any claim of similarity between "ITF" sparring and "TSD Sparring" or any other type of sparring for that matter.
I don't consider it to be TK-D. They can adopt whatever moniker they like as well as responsibility for any resulting confusion.

Open or not, It was a national championship in Tang Soo Do. What you are engaging in right now is called ad hoc.

Well, you can't blame me for any confusion since I don't invent patterns out of the blue, like the aforementioned groups. I consider it a greater "betrayal" to replace patterns compared to not doing them anymore.

I can furthermore point to why I'm doing TKD over any other system, although the differences from Kung Fu and Karate can be subtle at times and not necessarily fundamental (some practitioners in each art will always be outliers and do it their own way).

And yes, I am Acronym.
 

Earl Weiss

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Open or not, It was a national championship in Tang Soo Do. What you are engaging in right now is called ad hoc.



And yes, I am Acronym.
No, what I am engaging in now is correcting your misunderstanding. The video caption is "Polish Open..." not any claim of a TSD national championship for whatever that might have been worth to try and support your claim of sparring similarities. It was also "Stop Point" which ITF has not been for almost 50 years.
 

andyjeffries

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I am korean stylist and that is not shared by me. TaeKwonDo was a name change to Tang Soo Do schools, with replaced katas.

These techniques are 99% identical to the ITF TaeKwonDo branch, with some very, very minor exception (crescent kick with leg straight rather than bent).

If you want to distingush arts from each other based on an innoccious crescent kick difference, be my guest..

I've had a long held opinion that ITF Taekwon-do is closer to Karate than Kukki-Taekwondo is, this opinion and the video reinforces that opinion. I know ITF stylists tend to disagree, but it always feels to me like if you take Sine-wave out and draw a scale from Shotokan to Kukkiwon, ITF is much closer to the Shotokan end than the Kukkiwon end (or past it).
 
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andyjeffries

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I can relate. Although purely a TKD school we named our first Midstate Karate Studio because we were convinced no one would know what Tae Kwon Do was.
Out of interest have you renamed that school now as Taekwondo has become a much more widely known term? Or if it's closed down and new ones opened, did you continue calling them Karate or switch to using Taekwondo?
 

InfiniteLoop

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No, what I am engaging in now is correcting your misunderstanding. The video caption is "Polish Open..." not any claim of a TSD national championship for whatever that might have been worth to try and support your claim of sparring similarities. It was also "Stop Point" which ITF has not been for almost 50 years.

They spar exactly the same, stop or not. And we do stop in ITF too, just not instantly.
 

InfiniteLoop

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I've had a long held opinion that ITF Taekwon-do is closer to Karate than Kukki-Taekwondo is, this opinion and the video reinforces that opinion. I know ITF stylists tend to disagree, but it always feels to me like if you take Sine-wave out and draw a scale from Shotokan to Kukkiwon, ITF is much closer to the Shotokan end than the Kukkiwon end (or past it).

It seems to depend on lineage.

These instructional kicks are still chambered side ways.
 

InfiniteLoop

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I've had a long held opinion that ITF Taekwon-do is closer to Karate than Kukki-Taekwondo is, this opinion and the video reinforces that opinion..

Only if one thinks Tang Soo Do kicking is close to Karate, and it really isn't if you put them side by side. There's far more hip rotation in TSD kicks, and higher stances. And better flexibility, and more spin kick emphasis.
 

InfiniteLoop

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No, what I am engaging in now is correcting your misunderstanding. The video caption is "Polish Open..." not any claim of a TSD national championship for whatever that might have been worth to try and support your claim of sparring similarities. It was also "Stop Point" which ITF has not been for almost 50 years.

You left out "Tang So Do" championship.
 

andyjeffries

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chambered side ways
Sorry I don't understand what you mean by that.

On a different note, the instructor in that video is incredible in real life. GM Hwang, In-sik. He taught us on the Master Instructor course in 2016. He absolutely beasted the 3rd class candidates for an hour in basic kicking (joining in on every one of them), then he absolutely beasted the 2nd/1st class candidates exactly the same. An absolute legend (I believe he's 70 now).
 

InfiniteLoop

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Sorry I don't understand what you mean by that.

On a different note, the instructor in that video is incredible in real life. GM Hwang, In-sik. He taught us on the Master Instructor course in 2016. He absolutely beasted the 3rd class candidates for an hour in basic kicking (joining in on every one of them), then he absolutely beasted the 2nd/1st class candidates exactly the same. An absolute legend (I believe he's 70 now).

He doesn't do a front kick chamber.
 

andyjeffries

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Only if one thinks Tang Soo Do kicking is close to Karate, and it really isn't if you put them side by side. There's far more hip rotation in TSD kicks, and higher stances. And better flexibility, and more spin kick emphasis.
Considering the most basic kicks, ap chagi and dollyo chagi the Tangsoodo version definitely looks closer to Karate than Kukkiwon Taekwondo.

This Karate sensei certainly things TSD and Karate are pretty similar.
He does go on to point out some minor differences, but if they did these forms in a tracksuit, I'd guess Karate before TSD.

I'd love to see a video of Karate kicks, blocks, etc put side to side with ITF and Kukkiwon. Maybe this is a job for me some time...
 
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