Chicago Dojo Wars

[Kirk]

Do any of you have any details about the Chicago Dojo Wars??
I would love to hear the story about this, if anyone knows of
it. I spent quite awhile surfing the web for it, and can't find
any info on it. Can anyone hook me up?

 

[fist of fury]

yeah I searched too but culdn't find anything. I'd be interested if somebody knows.

 

[GouRonin]

If you check out the 24th issue of Black Belt magazine dated December 1965, you'll see a blurb about a group from Buffalo that called itself "'The Buffalo Black Belt Society' that vowed to police the ranks of the martial arts in upstate New York. Fake masters beware!"

Unknown if they actually did anything though...

 

[fist of fury]

Well I wouldn't want anyone killed but maybe something like that too weed out all the mcdojo's

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk
Do any of you have any details about the Chicago Dojo Wars??

What is the issue here?

 

[Kirk]

Just idle curiosity as to what actually happened at the dojo that
night/day.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk
Just idle curiosity as to what actually happened at the dojo that
night/day.

Sorry, I know nothing at all about this--what are the Chicago Dojo Wars?

 

[Kirk]

Let me first say that what I repeat here, is what I was told, not
necessarily FACTUAL. Count Dante (real name unknown) a.k.a
"Count Dynamite" was the instructor/sifu/sensei of The Black
Dragons school in Chicago. They'd have dojo challenges all
the time, and one strong rival in that area was The Green
Dragons school. One time, the fight in the dojo with MANY
students resulted in all present pulling various weapons off the
wall of the dojo they were in, and there were/was deaths.
Count Dante's friend and student (name unknown) died in this
"war". Count Dante was so distraught by it, he inevitably died
from bleeding ulcers, which were a direct result of his feeling
so bad about the death of his friend.

The "Count " came because he was true (British?) royalty.

Why the fight happened, why it escalated, how many students
were there, what were the injuries, ect. Anyone know? There's
hardly anything that I can find about it on the web.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk
Let me first say that what I repeat here, is what I was told, not necessarily FACTUAL.

Fair enough.

Count Dante (real name unknown) a.k.a
"Count Dynamite" was the instructor/sifu/sensei of The Black Dragons school in Chicago. They'd have dojo challenges all the time

I remember Count Dante--he had full-page ads in comic books all the time for his deadly system. We think correspondence systems are new with the Internet and video but it isn't that simple. I honestly didn't think he had an actual school--I assumed he was principally a businessman making his money by selling self-defense lessons through the mail. (I don't recall if he offered rank or a certificate or just lessons). He was a well-known character due to his ads.

The "Count " came because he was true (British?) royalty.

I'd be suspicious of that--for starters, it's Earl in the UK system, not Count (though the wife of an Earl is a Countess; see also here and here.) Also, Dante does not sound like a British surname or place name--it's an Italian first name.

He was always just a figure in a comic book ad to me--I'd be curious to hear more!

 

[GouRonin]

"Count Dante" = John Keehan. Not a real Count. Self given through his ranking.

April 23/1970, The dojo war caused the stabbing death of Jim Koncevic.

The Count died of bleeding ulcers in 1975.

Yes he was the guy in the back of comic books.

 

[Kirk]

Kewl, one "fact" discounted. He's not royalty. Anyone else
know any details of the event?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk
Kewl, one "fact" discounted. He's not royalty.

A count would be noble but not in general royal (unless say he were a prince who was also a count, e.g. Prince Edward of the UK who is also an Earl). In any event, it appears that as expected Count Dante was neither!

What did the ads say? Ah yes, the "Deadliest Man Alive".

Web searches on Count Dante turn up many odd items. I notice there is a band that has taken on this name.

http://www.ashidakim.com/history.html
http://www.the-snu.co.uk/dante.html
(A larger ad appears on the latter site.)

 

[superdave]

Here is another site on Count Dante. According to this article he created the martial arts. So we all owe him a great deal of gratitude.http://www.countdante.com

 

[Rob_Broad]

I know the Ashida Kim webpage refers to Count Dante.

 

[Cthulhu]

'Count Dante's' full name was Juan Raphael Dante, right? Did he speak with a hispanic accent at all? You'd imagine that a Spanish noble would speak with some sort of accent. I just can't see how so many people fell for this guy's B.S.

Have you seen his pictures? All of his poses look like something from those 'They Call Me Bruce' movies, except those were supposed to be funny.

Cthulhu

 

[tshadowchaser]

Did not Black Belt Magizine carry a few articals on the full event some time after? If I remember correctly Count Dante and 3 to 5 of his students "visited" a local Chinese School, seems like Dante and the Schools instructor (can't remember name) had said crude things about each other. Anyway upon entering they faced a gauntlet with the Sifu standing on the other end, the students inbetween where all armed with knives hatchets etc.
All of Dante's students where seriously injured one killed. Dante it is said actually made it trough the line but collasped at the feet o the Sifu.
There have been a few articles on this event over the years but all seem to be just retelling of the original story I read many years ago.
Has anyone tried contacting Black Belt Mag. to see if they have th artical in their arcives?
Shadow

 

[GouRonin]

That story sounds like a load of cr@p to me.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Soory But I do not spin tales. The question was asked I answered to the best of my memory.
I didnt say all facts where true just what I recalled being printed at the time.
If you are not old enough to remember when instructors would fight open wars for territory it not my fault. Times have changed now peope sue if you look cross ways at them.Back then you fought for your territory and the winnner stayed the loser whent to the hospital, then went somewhere else to set up shop.
The fact remains one student killed 3 or 4 injured And that was just Dante's people and they where not in their own dojo
How true the repored facts where I can not say and if I remember correctly Dante was always reluctant to speck on the subject.
Dose the Chigo Tribune have a morgue that might have the info
Shadow

 

[GouRonin]

I am not saying that you are full of cr@p. Just that the story is.

C'mon. Who is gonna walk through a gauntlet of knives and hatchets? And on Dante made it through only to fall at the feet of the school's owner?

There were dojo wars. Dante and crew did go to another school with bad intentions. Things did get out of hand and a fight did erupt. A weapon was pulled by one or two people. One person died as a result. Dante regretted it to his dying day.

But come on...that report makes it sound like it was a ritualized fight to prove how tough Dante was. This is the same guy who advertised in comic books for cryin' out loud as to his hands of death!

If you're gulible enough to believe that line of spew they supposedly called "facts" as they reported it, then "it's not my fault."

Really.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Never said I belived all of it, anything reported by newspapers is subject to miss quotes and possibly bad information due to people giveing misleading facts.
I'll try to contact the Chicago tribune , Chicago public libary, and Black Belt Mag. to see if I can get an arcive artical on the whole thing. That obviously will take some time but give me time and I'll report back with the info I get(hopefully I can get it)
Shadow