Cheap Shot

[Big Don]

Is there such a thing as a cheap shot in a fight?
Maybe, in a controlled environment, there is. In an actual self defense situation, is there such a thing as a cheap shot?
I am a Kenpoist, we strike the groin, a lot, we poke and rake the eyes, we strike the throat, these aren't cheap shots, they are viable targets.
I am of the opinion that whatever shots you have to take to defend yourself are not only warranted, they are damn near required of anyone with sense.
What say you?

 

[Xue Sheng]

weeeeeeell

 

[Big Don]

weeeeeeell

"That's for asking me where I crap!"

 

[Dirty Dog]

Sparring is one thing. Self defense is another. Whatever ends it quicker and safer (for me, not them...) is best. There are no cheap shots.

 

[MJS]

Is there such a thing as a cheap shot in a fight?
Maybe, in a controlled environment, there is. In an actual self defense situation, is there such a thing as a cheap shot?
I am a Kenpoist, we strike the groin, a lot, we poke and rake the eyes, we strike the throat, these aren't cheap shots, they are viable targets.
I am of the opinion that whatever shots you have to take to defend yourself are not only warranted, they are damn near required of anyone with sense.
What say you?

I'm guessing people think they're cheap either because in a sporting event, ie: UFC, they're considered cheap or because people are thinking of fights of old, where it was 1 on 1, no worry of someone else jumping in, and you just duked it out, just punching. Whatever the case may be, I'm with you....the things that we do, the rakes, slaps, etc, aren't cheap. If it presents itself, and will help save my tail, I'll take it.

 

[punisher73]

I agree the only "cheap shots" are when you are going outside the rules of your sport/match. I remember one person bragging on here about how he beat up a master of X, but when he was telling the story he did it by clearly violating the rules of the match and type of contest. I have heard another person talking about "beating" a grappler by gouging his eyes in their match. Huh? Unless you are both agreeing to those tactics and it is clearly understood, I would say that those are cheap shots.

It's one thing if your life or safety is on the line, it's another to use those tactics during a sparring contest no matter how intense it is just to win.

 

[Nomad]

It depends on the context.

Even outside the sparring ring, there are "societal rules/norms" for fighting. If you're involved in what's effectively a consensual fight (whether as a result of responding to someone else's monkey dance initiation "What are you looking at?" or whatever), then there are "cheap shots"; areas that are considered "off limits" to strike or attack. These tend to be the same areas that were off-limits when you were "fighting" in the schoolyard... you don't kick the groin, pull hair, or gouge the eyes for example. In other words, if you're fighting for status (especially as young, stupid men), then yes, cheap shots will be called, and may lead to worse things (group beating for instance). Of course, it's up to you whether or not you decide to adhere to these unwritten rules, or step outside them deliberately (which may have other consequences including everyone thinking you're an a$$hole or psychotic, or deciding to press charges when they might not have if you'd fought by "the rules").

Keep in mind that the above was written with young men in mind; women will often have no such natural aversion to these areas, kicking the groin, pulling hair, scratching, biting, etc., whether against another woman or a man.

Self-defense? No such thing as a cheap shot. Especially considering that if you're attacked, you'll often know it after you've already been hit by one or more cheap shots by the bad guy (who likely isn't looking for a fight, just a victim).

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I do not understand the concept of 'cheap shot' as it applies to self-defense.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I do not understand the concept of 'cheap shot' as it applies to self-defense.

That's because there isn't one

 

[Nomad]

I do not understand the concept of 'cheap shot' as it applies to self-defense.

It falls into the same category as a "fair fight" in self-defense. Mythical at best.

 

[Champ-Pain]

Is there such a thing as a cheap shot in a fight?

What say you?

NO! Only expensive ones - like bail bonds, attorney fees, & hospital bills.

 

[David43515]

Sports and sparring, fighting for status in the hierarchy (ie: testosterone poisoning), the friendly socially accepted fist fight, those all have rules or expectations. You know your opponant isn`t really out to hurt you he`s trying to win a contest or prove a point.

Self defense means some preditor saw you as prey. They made a choice to attack you and you have no idea how far they`re willing to take it or what their ultimate motive may be. (To them it may be one of the above "social" fights, but you don`t know. When I hear the words self defense, I picture asssault-robbery-rape-kidnapping etc.) So while the law says you shouldn`t hurt them anymore than you have to in order to protect yourself, there aren`t any rules about what`s fair and foul. They chose to attack you. They put on their big-boy pants and made a grown up choice so they have to be prepared to deal with grown up consequences.
ie: 1) Hey! he spit in my face before he punched me. (great distraction)
2) It wasn`t fair, I tripped over those chairs. (No, I shoved you into them.)
3) Hey! he threw his drink, the ashtray, the napkin holder, the stapler, etc at that guy before he kicked him in the fork. (Thir, I beleive you have my stapler.)
4) Ow my foot! Ow my eye! Leggo my ear! Leggo my hair! ****, he bit me!
Or one I saw across a parking lot afew years ago when 3 large guys pushed a woman down and tried to steal christmas packages from her car trunk,
5) Holy ****!! ***** cut me with a knife!!Run!

If we both expect there to be rules or an understanding, I`ll abide by it. If I have to defend myself or someone I love from an unprovoked attack I`m going home with your pec*er in my pocket.

 

[Cyriacus]

I think there are Cheap Shots.
But they either have to;
A: Occur before any Fighting initiates, when the other Person is Unaware.
B: When the Nature of that Fight dictates that it would be 'Cheap'. For example, if You were fighting to assert Yourself over someone else (Especially common with <20 Year Olds), its more about proving that Youre better than them. Not that You can maim them. Thatll only make both Him and His Friends upset. But winning with baseline Striking, would communicate that Youre just better than He is.
C: A Strike delivered after the Fight has ended.

That said, if this is plain old 'some guy comes over and attacks you', of course there arent any cheap shots.

 

[Big Don]

Twenty years ago, while selling fruit at a farmer's market, my dad was robbed. He first threw the cup of coffee he was pouring into the guy's face, then proceeded to smack the mofo about the head with the stainless steel thermos of doom.
It's a shame the guy still kicked the **** outta Dad...

 

[Cyriacus]

Twenty years ago, while selling fruit at a farmer's market, my dad was robbed. He first threw the cup of coffee he was pouring into the guy's face, then proceeded to smack the mofo about the head with the stainless steel thermos of doom.
It's a shame the guy still kicked the **** outta Dad...

Thats Brilliant Unfortunately, Hed have been wiser to lose the Thermo after the first blow, and switched to either something heavier, or His Fists; But still - Thats a sweet reaction

 

[Big Don]

He always puts his hand through the handle and holds the body of the thermos, so, it was like a big shiny extension of his hand.

 

[Cyriacus]

He always puts his hand through the handle and holds the body of the thermos, so, it was like a big shiny extension of his hand.

Naturally - But it would have lacked the full support of the Wrist and Arm, due to its size
Otherwise, if He was hitting Hard against the Head, theres not much that can be done to Resist that, regardless of size. Look at any Full Contact Bout. Usually the response is to cover up.

 

[MJS]

It depends on the context.

Even outside the sparring ring, there are "societal rules/norms" for fighting. If you're involved in what's effectively a consensual fight (whether as a result of responding to someone else's monkey dance initiation "What are you looking at?" or whatever), then there are "cheap shots"; areas that are considered "off limits" to strike or attack. These tend to be the same areas that were off-limits when you were "fighting" in the schoolyard... you don't kick the groin, pull hair, or gouge the eyes for example. In other words, if you're fighting for status (especially as young, stupid men), then yes, cheap shots will be called, and may lead to worse things (group beating for instance). Of course, it's up to you whether or not you decide to adhere to these unwritten rules, or step outside them deliberately (which may have other consequences including everyone thinking you're an a$$hole or psychotic, or deciding to press charges when they might not have if you'd fought by "the rules").

Keep in mind that the above was written with young men in mind; women will often have no such natural aversion to these areas, kicking the groin, pulling hair, scratching, biting, etc., whether against another woman or a man.

Self-defense? No such thing as a cheap shot. Especially considering that if you're attacked, you'll often know it after you've already been hit by one or more cheap shots by the bad guy (who likely isn't looking for a fight, just a victim).

If we look at the mutual fight, let me ask: do you think that those people will really adhere to those 'rules' of no cheap shots? IMHO, I'd think that due to ego, each person involved will want to do what they have to, to win, even if that means a cheap shot. As for other people joining in, again, IMHO, I think thats a very real possibility even if no cheap shots are being thrown.

 

[Cyriacus]

If we look at the mutual fight, let me ask: do you think that those people will really adhere to those 'rules' of no cheap shots? IMHO, I'd think that due to ego, each person involved will want to do what they have to, to win, even if that means a cheap shot. As for other people joining in, again, IMHO, I think thats a very real possibility even if no cheap shots are being thrown.

I think it depends - Not on who, but why, there is a Fight in the first place.
And we're assuming its One on One.

A Drunken Brawl for example, is more likely to descend into senseless Violence than an arguement where someones finger becomes a fist. That is to say, more likely. Nothing is certain, and I would NOT take the chance, Myself.

 

[punisher73]

It depends on the context.

Even outside the sparring ring, there are "societal rules/norms" for fighting. If you're involved in what's effectively a consensual fight (whether as a result of responding to someone else's monkey dance initiation "What are you looking at?" or whatever), then there are "cheap shots"; areas that are considered "off limits" to strike or attack. These tend to be the same areas that were off-limits when you were "fighting" in the schoolyard... you don't kick the groin, pull hair, or gouge the eyes for example. In other words, if you're fighting for status (especially as young, stupid men), then yes, cheap shots will be called, and may lead to worse things (group beating for instance). Of course, it's up to you whether or not you decide to adhere to these unwritten rules, or step outside them deliberately (which may have other consequences including everyone thinking you're an a$$hole or psychotic, or deciding to press charges when they might not have if you'd fought by "the rules").

Keep in mind that the above was written with young men in mind; women will often have no such natural aversion to these areas, kicking the groin, pulling hair, scratching, biting, etc., whether against another woman or a man.

Self-defense? No such thing as a cheap shot. Especially considering that if you're attacked, you'll often know it after you've already been hit by one or more cheap shots by the bad guy (who likely isn't looking for a fight, just a victim).

I don't agree with this statement at all. The only time there are "cheap shots" even in heirarchy fights is when the crowd watching doesn't like the outcome. If it is the person they are rooting for and he kicks the other guy in the balls, that is fine. If the underdog does it, then it is dirty. There are no societal norms even in high school fights, that type of thinking will get you hurt. That might have been true at one time (look at all the old John Wayne movies) but not in today's culture.