Chang Moo Kwan?

rosworms

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Can someone tell me about Chang Moo Kwan and how this version of
TKD is different from others? Very short and kinda open question, I know... sorry.
 

chrispillertkd

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The original founder of the Chang Moo Kwan was Byung In Yun who founded the YMCA Kwon Bup Bu in 1946. He had been trained in Kwon Bup ("fist method," IIRC) and then trained in Shudokan karate while in Japan. He was recognized as a 4th dan and certified as a Shihan by Kanken Toyama the founder of the Shudokan at a time when there were only 5 dan levels.

During the Korean War Byung In Yun disappeared and was apparently taken to North Korea by his older brother and remained there until he died. Meanwhile, Byung In Yun's student Nam Suk Lee reorganizes his instructor's organization after the war and founds the Chang Moo Kwan proper (as opposed to the YMCA Kwon Bup Bu). Nam Suk Lee originally held a position in the ITF (although specifically what one escapes me at the moment) and then, after Gen. Choi went into self-imposed exile in Canada he became involved in the WTF/Kukkiwon movement, IIRC.

As for technical differences, that will really depend on how close to its Kwan roots a particular school is. Some of them might still teach the Chuan Fa forms that Byung In Yun included in his curriculum (including at least one he designed himself). My instructor was originally from a school with Chang Moo Kwan roots but we always did ITF patterns.

Hope this helps.

Pax,

Chris
 

rmclain

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Chris did a great job of explaining the Changmoo-Kwan lineage situation today.

Master Lee Nam-sok was not the most senior student of Yoon Byung-in. But, he was a little older than some of the other students under Yoon, plus he had the ability to get training space due to his govt. job at the postal administration. Master Lee's re-opened dojang (following the start of the Korean War in 1950) was in the Cheshinbu (Postal Administration Office) in 1952.

Master Lee (like many of the other martial artists at that time), were persuaded by Choi Hong-hi to promote a unified Korean art internationally. Master Lee really quit teaching Master Yoon's lineage in the early 1960's and worked with Choi Hong-hi for many years. So, it fits that Chris's instructor used the name Changmoo-Kwan, but taught ITF forms (Choi Hong-hi's organization creation). This is actually quite common nowadays.

R. McLain
 

chrispillertkd

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Thanks for the info on Grand Master Lee! I always find it interesting hearing about Kwan figures from back in the day and the info about being able to get training space because of his job was something I had not heard before.

Pax,

Chris
 

Tensei85

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Awesome! Originally I trained in the Chang Moo Kwan lineage of TKD, under Chang Soo Lim.

We incorporated into the system the ITF forms, the Taeguek and Palgwe poomsae. But the focus was on the latter 2 of the 3.

Under Chang Soo Lim they also incorporated a lot of Hapkido into the training syllabus as well.

Great times though!
 

zDom

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Nam Suk Lee was fishing buddies with the (late) founder of the (U.S.) Moo Sul Kwan, Lee H. Park.

As a special guest at our annual convention, Nam Suk Lee sat in on my test to first dan black in TKD and taught a class during the convention. It was one of the most memorable training sessions in my martial art career.
 

Miles

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Awesome! Originally I trained in the Chang Moo Kwan lineage of TKD, under Chang Soo Lim./quote]

Very neat! My original instructor's instructor was GM BC Yu out of Ann Arbor who was Chang Moo Kwan. I believe he helped sponsor GM CS Lim (have to ask his daughter Jaewon about that). GM Yu was in charge of the MI region for the ITF back then (1975-77 or so).
 

Archtkd

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Awesome! Originally I trained in the Chang Moo Kwan lineage of TKD, under Chang Soo Lim./quote]

Very neat! My original instructor's instructor was GM BC Yu out of Ann Arbor who was Chang Moo Kwan. I believe he helped sponsor GM CS Lim (have to ask his daughter Jaewon about that). GM Yu was in charge of the MI region for the ITF back then (1975-77 or so).

Master Miles: This is an ancient thread, but I was wondering? Do you know any old school Chang Moo Kwan masters in the Midwest that went the WTF route. Duk Gun Kwon is one, but do you know others? I'm interested in learning more about the YMCA Kwon Bop Bu/Chang Moo Kwan and Kang Duk Won Kwan curricula especially the elements that had the greatest Chuan Fa influence.
 

dancingalone

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Master Miles: This is an ancient thread, but I was wondering? Do you know any old school Chang Moo Kwan masters in the Midwest that went the WTF route. Duk Gun Kwon is one, but do you know others? I'm interested in learning more about the YMCA Kwon Bop Bu/Chang Moo Kwan and Kang Duk Won Kwan curricula especially the elements that had the greatest Chuan Fa influence.

You might contact Mr. McClain who participated in this thread directly as I believe he trains the Chuan Fa forms brought into the YMCA Kwon Bop Bu by Byung In Yoon. He might be able to point you to people who can demonstrate the forms like Doju San even if they might not be WTF-affiliated.
 

Archtkd

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You might contact Mr. McClain who participated in this thread directly as I believe he trains the Chuan Fa forms brought into the YMCA Kwon Bop Bu by Byung In Yoon. He might be able to point you to people who can demonstrate the forms like Doju San even if they might not be WTF-affiliated.

Thanks a million. I've had two Korean masters with strong YMCA Kwon Bop Bu and Kang Duk Won influence, but I was never able to tap their knowledge about their previous training. Both are now Kukki stylists, and of one of them -- Sun Park in Cincinnati -- has a father who was third generation Kang Duk Won and was very close to the early Kukkiwon piooners.
 

dancingalone

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Have you seen any of those Chuan Fa forms, ArchTKD? I don't care too much for them myself - they are very unlike what I prefer myself in forms which is crispness and visible power and focus.

That said, I could definitely see why some in the KMA might want to move in this direction.

This is a video of Mr. McClain's own teacher I believe playing one of those forms.

[yt]hcEYR6ssLh0[/yt]
 

puunui

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Nam Suk Lee originally held a position in the ITF (although specifically what one escapes me at the moment) and then, after Gen. Choi went into self-imposed exile in Canada he became involved in the WTF/Kukkiwon movement, IIRC.


GM LEE Nam Suk held the position of ITF Secretary General, neither he nor the Chang Moo Kwan was ever separated from the KTA/WTF/Kukkiwon movement. For example, the Chang Moo Kwan was represented by GM KIM Soon Bae on the 1967 KTA Ad Hoc Committee that created the Palgwae and Yudanja forms, as well as the same committee that went on to subsequently create Koryo 2 and the Taeguek poomsae in 1971/1972.
 

puunui

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As a special guest at our annual convention, Nam Suk Lee sat in on my test to first dan black in TKD and taught a class during the convention. It was one of the most memorable training sessions in my martial art career.

What did GM LEE Nam Suk teach in that class you attended?
 

Miles

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Master Miles: This is an ancient thread, but I was wondering? Do you know any old school Chang Moo Kwan masters in the Midwest that went the WTF route. Duk Gun Kwon is one, but do you know others? I'm interested in learning more about the YMCA Kwon Bop Bu/Chang Moo Kwan and Kang Duk Won Kwan curricula especially the elements that had the greatest Chuan Fa influence.


"Master"? I'm just a 3rd class instructor. :)

GM Hwa Chong, former President of the USTU and Professor Emeritus at University of MI is from the Kang Duk Won. He is one of the most friendly gentlemen you will ever meet. I think he is retired but you could probably contact Naji at the U of M TKD club and get further historical information. That club has been around a long time.

GM Eugene Humesky is Chang Moo Kwan. His organization is the Universal TKD Brotherhood, I believe. I haven't seen him for several years so he may be totally retired. Brian Vancise who is very active on MT may have contact information.

Good luck!
 

zDom

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What did GM LEE Nam Suk teach in that class you attended?

What I recall the best — and still use on occasion to this day*— are hand/forearm conditioning drills that also train putting "snap" into technique at the last moment.

The drills are practiced with a partner. Each parter does an inverted knife hand strike meeting the partner's strike followed by a regular knife hand strike. Then the two same two strikes are repeated with the other hand.

So, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, etc. etc.

with the goal is to get faster and smoother while maintaining focus and snap.


Another was low blocks (partner's arms meeting at the blocking points) inside right forearm, outside right forearm, inside left forearm, outside left forearm (etc.)

Great drill, but only for those who don't mind a little pain.
 

chrispillertkd

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GM Eugene Humesky is Chang Moo Kwan. His organization is the Universal TKD Brotherhood, I believe. I haven't seen him for several years so he may be totally retired. Brian Vancise who is very active on MT may have contact information.

Good luck!

I've met GM Humesky a few times over the last several years at various functions. He's a very interesting gentleman and has been around for a long time. He is getting along in years (I believe he is in his late 80's now). I don't know if he is still actively teaching as he was in a wheelchair when I last saw him.

Pax,

Chris
 

chrispillertkd

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What I recall the best and still use on occasion to this day* are hand/forearm conditioning drills that also train putting "snap" into technique at the last moment.

The drills are practiced with a partner. Each parter does an inverted knife hand strike meeting the partner's strike followed by a regular knife hand strike. Then the two same two strikes are repeated with the other hand.

So, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, etc. etc.

with the goal is to get faster and smoother while maintaining focus and snap.

Heh, I've done this exact same drill and my instructor has roots in the Chang Moo Kwan, too. It also appears in Gen. Choi's books but it's interesting to note that GM Nam Suk Lee taught it and my instructor trained under both B.C. Yu and C.S Lim when he came over to Michigan. Small world in some ways :)

Love doing this drill with partners.

Another was low blocks (partner's arms meeting at the blocking points) inside right forearm, outside right forearm, inside left forearm, outside left forearm (etc.)

Great drill, but only for those who don't mind a little pain.

Indeed. We've done this one, too, although not as often as the knife-hand drill. Takes a bit of getting used to it the first time ;)

Both of these drills are still part of the ITF syllabus. They are called "knocking exercises" by Gen. Choi since you're knocking your blocking tools against those of your partner. While I presume these exercises - or ones similar to them - were present in other Kwans I wonder if Gen. Choi got them from GM Lee. Both exercises (knife hand and forearm) appear in his 1965 text book and all the editions since then (don't know if they're in the 1959 Korean language book since I don't have that one :( ).

Pax,

Chris
 

puunui

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GM Eugene Humesky is Chang Moo Kwan. His organization is the Universal TKD Brotherhood, I believe. I haven't seen him for several years so he may be totally retired.


I am unclear as to what Kwan GM Humesky is. He told me that he first learned Taekwondo under GM SHIM Sang Kyu, which would make him a Moo Duk Kwan member. But I know that GM LEE Nam Suk used to visit Michigan frequently so perhaps that is how he became a Chang Moo Kwan member. GM Humesky is a Kukkiwon 7th Dan and he asked me once a long time ago what he needed to do to get promoted to Kukkiwon 8th Dan. I told him that he would have to test in Korea at the Kukkiwon and demonstrate his knowledge of the 8th Dan promotion requirements, which includes writing a paper. He never spoke about testing for Kukkiwon 8th Dan again.
 

puunui

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What I recall the best and still use on occasion to this day* are hand/forearm conditioning drills that also train putting "snap" into technique at the last moment.

The drills are practiced with a partner. Each parter does an inverted knife hand strike meeting the partner's strike followed by a regular knife hand strike. Then the two same two strikes are repeated with the other hand.

So, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, (palm up) right, (palm down) right, (palm up) left, (palm down) left, etc. etc.

with the goal is to get faster and smoother while maintaining focus and snap.


Another was low blocks (partner's arms meeting at the blocking points) inside right forearm, outside right forearm, inside left forearm, outside left forearm (etc.)

Great drill, but only for those who don't mind a little pain.


We did a version of that in Wing Chun, Kenpo and also I believe maybe a couple few times in Taekwondo classes, but not frequently. I don't have a Chang Moo Kwan background. In our Wing Chun and Kenpo classes, we did it but we used dit da jow before and after to condition and heal our forearms. It was in the Bruce Lee era, and Bruce Lee had these massive forearms which we thought was a key to martial arts mastery, so we went for it. I still make my own jow, generally a gallon every Chinese New Years.
 

puunui

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Both exercises (knife hand and forearm) appear in his 1965 text book and all the editions since then (don't know if they're in the 1959 Korean language book since I don't have that one :( ).


I have that book, the 1959 one.
 

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